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> It’s a good reminder never to assume malice when plain old stupidity is on the table. We are only in this mess because of this attitude. Don't let evil peopl

> It’s a good reminder never to assume malice when plain old stupidity is on the table. We are only in this mess because of this attitude. Don't let evil people get away with evil things just because you think they are stupid. The current groups that believe climate change isn't real all believe that because of decades of misinformation specifically targeted at them, by Exxon and others. Malice is 100% present and 100% at fault for this. Greedy companies wanted more short term money and knew that it would kill millions of people and cause untold chaos and they didn't care.

headmelted 5y ago
Correct. But the reason they believe it is because they’re stupid. The fossil fuel lobby is malicious. Their audience is gullible. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not even saying being a gullible fool on this issue is acceptable. It’s clearly not. I feel the same about this lot as about the anti-vaxxers, which is “read a book before you get anyone else killed”.
- sherp 5y ago
  I think you're underestimating the role motivated belief (aka 'wishful thinking') plays on the part of the audience. If your livelihood depends on a certain industry, or you simply don't feel like making sacrifices, it's extremely easy and comforting to believe the side of the 'debate' that says the problem doesn't exist, even if their evidence is patently flimsy. This is neither outright stupidity or outright malice, but a pernicious mentality that includes a bit of both. That is why the 'ignorance or malice' question is not a productive framing - the two are not mutually exclusive.
- gmadsen 5y ago
  you have to plan for the world we live in not the world you want. Gullible people are a fact of life. Blaming them does nothing productive
iammisc 5y ago
You're not going to 'win' if you just call people who disagree with you 'evil'. Man... people claim that Christians are bad for judging, but I've found the entire human population to be happy to not just say that an action is wrong but ready to call the sinner literally evil. This is such toxic language, it shouldn't be tolerated.

headmelted 5y ago

Correct. But the reason they believe it is because they’re stupid. The fossil fuel lobby is malicious. Their audience is gullible. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not even saying being a gullible fool on this issue is acceptable. It’s clearly not. I feel the same about this lot as about the anti-vaxxers, which is “read a book before you get anyone else killed”.

sherp 5y ago
I think you're underestimating the role motivated belief (aka 'wishful thinking') plays on the part of the audience. If your livelihood depends on a certain industry, or you simply don't feel like making sacrifices, it's extremely easy and comforting to believe the side of the 'debate' that says the problem doesn't exist, even if their evidence is patently flimsy. This is neither outright stupidity or outright malice, but a pernicious mentality that includes a bit of both. That is why the 'ignorance or malice' question is not a productive framing - the two are not mutually exclusive.
gmadsen 5y ago
you have to plan for the world we live in not the world you want. Gullible people are a fact of life. Blaming them does nothing productive

iammisc 5y ago

You're not going to 'win' if you just call people who disagree with you 'evil'. Man... people claim that Christians are bad for judging, but I've found the entire human population to be happy to not just say that an action is wrong but ready to call the sinner literally evil. This is such toxic language, it shouldn't be tolerated.