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the number one concern I've had with regards to face masks, above and beyond all else, has been the cognitive development of children growing up in these times.

the number one concern I've had with regards to face masks, above and beyond all else, has been the cognitive development of children growing up in these times. I'm no behavioral psychologist or whatever but surely concealing the facial expressions of adults and other children isn't going to be very good for young children passively learning how to intuitively emote and show emotion in facial expressions! I realized this when I was working retail earlier this year and recognized that I could no longer smile at small children while masked. I'm afraid that a lot of decisions made in the past couple years are going to have unforeseen nth-order effects that won't become fully apparent until later on.

gliese1337 5y ago
So social norms change. So what? The way that neurotypical Americans currently use facial expressions for public social interaction isn't set in stone, inherent to humanity, or essential to normal development. It is a collection of accidental cultural practices, which are not shared throughout the world right now and will change in the future anyway. So, something might be speeding up the evolution of our cultural conventions right now--so what? The kids will be fine.
- kaesar14 5y ago
  The OP didn't even say they were American, and the choice isn't between current facial expressive norms and different ones, it's limiting the ability of children to read the most expressive part of our faces entirely.
  - gliese1337 5y ago
    The OP didn't even say they were American Doesn't matter. The same argument applies regardless of where you live. the choice isn't between current facial expressive norms and different ones, it's limiting the ability of children to read the most expressive part of our faces entirely. So what if it is? I see no evidence that that is actually a problem. It is only a problem if you assume that we must maintain current social norms; otherwise, you can just update social norms to not depend on error-prone interpretation of faces in public. Congenitally blind people develop just fine without ever seeing any faces at all--and nobody is saying you have to stay masked 24/7 in the privacy of our own home, so it's not like seeing children are deprived of any and all facial stimulation anyway.
bongaiken 5y ago
Valid concerns, however -- we do not wear masks for no reason. There is another danger -- that we did not choose -- that the masks are aiding against. We have no good choice perhaps -- only one that is less bad -- the question to answer is which is which. Will the children take more harm from missing faces, or from sickness and deaths?
- mrkramer 5y ago
  >Will the children take more harm from missing faces, or from sickness and deaths? They will take more harm from missing faces because their psychological development depends on reading face emotions. Covid death rate among children is extremely low but they can spread it to their parents are grandparents tho. After this pandemic is all gone and done why don't we all wear Guy Fawkes masks for the rest of the life if faces don't matter as you imply. Maybe that way we can preserve our privacy and fight CCTV surveillance.
  - gliese1337 5y ago
    After this pandemic is all gone and done why don't we all wear Guy Fawkes masks for the rest of the life if faces don't matter as you imply. Maybe that way we can preserve our privacy and fight CCTV surveillance. You say that as if it's a joke, but... Yeah. Let's do it. I am 100% down for that. If I want you to recognize me, I'll wear a name tag, and if I want you to know how I'm feeling I'll tell you.
    - mrkramer 5y ago
      >If I want you to recognize me, I'll wear a name tag, and if I want you to know how I'm feeling I'll tell you. I was alluding to opposite; let's be faceless and emotionless if face and emotion don't matter.
      - gliese1337 5y ago
        Nobody said that faces and emotions don't matter. That's a strawman argument.
thebouv 5y ago
Do you just imagine parents at home with their developing children, wearing masks 24 hours a day? Or that they only learn how to emote and facial expressions from their limited interactions outside their home? Wear a mask. The kids will be fine.
- adamrezich 5y ago
  no thanks! I live in South Dakota and haven't worn a mask since the school system I work in lifted the mask mandate at the start of July, and before that I only wore it in the lobby of my building. everything's going great here! the bottom floors of my building are a YMCA daycare and I get to smile at and greet many unmasked small children every day, it gives me a tiny bit of joy coming and going from work. I appreciate the unsolicited instruction though, and the kids will in fact be fine.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
Can't be any worse than what the Internet has already done to society. People in the younger generations, in developed countries, had stopped acting like human beings even before COVID hit.

gliese1337 5y ago

So social norms change. So what? The way that neurotypical Americans currently use facial expressions for public social interaction isn't set in stone, inherent to humanity, or essential to normal development. It is a collection of accidental cultural practices, which are not shared throughout the world right now and will change in the future anyway. So, something might be speeding up the evolution of our cultural conventions right now--so what? The kids will be fine.

kaesar14 5y ago
The OP didn't even say they were American, and the choice isn't between current facial expressive norms and different ones, it's limiting the ability of children to read the most expressive part of our faces entirely.
- gliese1337 5y ago
  The OP didn't even say they were American Doesn't matter. The same argument applies regardless of where you live. the choice isn't between current facial expressive norms and different ones, it's limiting the ability of children to read the most expressive part of our faces entirely. So what if it is? I see no evidence that that is actually a problem. It is only a problem if you assume that we must maintain current social norms; otherwise, you can just update social norms to not depend on error-prone interpretation of faces in public. Congenitally blind people develop just fine without ever seeing any faces at all--and nobody is saying you have to stay masked 24/7 in the privacy of our own home, so it's not like seeing children are deprived of any and all facial stimulation anyway.

bongaiken 5y ago

Valid concerns, however -- we do not wear masks for no reason. There is another danger -- that we did not choose -- that the masks are aiding against. We have no good choice perhaps -- only one that is less bad -- the question to answer is which is which. Will the children take more harm from missing faces, or from sickness and deaths?

mrkramer 5y ago
>Will the children take more harm from missing faces, or from sickness and deaths? They will take more harm from missing faces because their psychological development depends on reading face emotions. Covid death rate among children is extremely low but they can spread it to their parents are grandparents tho. After this pandemic is all gone and done why don't we all wear Guy Fawkes masks for the rest of the life if faces don't matter as you imply. Maybe that way we can preserve our privacy and fight CCTV surveillance.
- gliese1337 5y ago
  After this pandemic is all gone and done why don't we all wear Guy Fawkes masks for the rest of the life if faces don't matter as you imply. Maybe that way we can preserve our privacy and fight CCTV surveillance. You say that as if it's a joke, but... Yeah. Let's do it. I am 100% down for that. If I want you to recognize me, I'll wear a name tag, and if I want you to know how I'm feeling I'll tell you.
  - mrkramer 5y ago
    >If I want you to recognize me, I'll wear a name tag, and if I want you to know how I'm feeling I'll tell you. I was alluding to opposite; let's be faceless and emotionless if face and emotion don't matter.
    - gliese1337 5y ago
      Nobody said that faces and emotions don't matter. That's a strawman argument.

thebouv 5y ago

Do you just imagine parents at home with their developing children, wearing masks 24 hours a day? Or that they only learn how to emote and facial expressions from their limited interactions outside their home? Wear a mask. The kids will be fine.

adamrezich 5y ago
no thanks! I live in South Dakota and haven't worn a mask since the school system I work in lifted the mask mandate at the start of July, and before that I only wore it in the lobby of my building. everything's going great here! the bottom floors of my building are a YMCA daycare and I get to smile at and greet many unmasked small children every day, it gives me a tiny bit of joy coming and going from work. I appreciate the unsolicited instruction though, and the kids will in fact be fine.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

Can't be any worse than what the Internet has already done to society. People in the younger generations, in developed countries, had stopped acting like human beings even before COVID hit.