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It's all hindsight. Iraq was a colossal mistake but the world was in agreement about the Taliban and their war crimes. There was never a right time to bail out;

It's all hindsight. Iraq was a colossal mistake but the world was in agreement about the Taliban and their war crimes. There was never a right time to bail out; the US and allies have invested hundreds of billions in infrastructure but it's a state of tribes more than a nation.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
The US already did this exact thing in the 1980s, and they even made a popular movie about it (Charlie Wilson’s War) that came out in 2007 and spelled out consequences of not investing for the long, long term at the end of the movie. Politically, invading Afghanistan to get Osama was impossible to avoid since something had to be done. But after Osama was killed, I do not understand what possible motivation the US had for staying there other than enriching players in the military industrial complex.
- crazy_horse 5y ago
  If they left in 2012 the Taliban would have done then what they re doing now. There's no good leader that was willing to abandon people to that fate until the public exhausted of the war as it has.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    > If they left in 2012 the Taliban would have done then what they re doing now. Yes, that is my point. The options were Taliban (or other tribal groups) take over, or the US spends the next 100 years rebuilding Afghan society and waiting out for all the old people to die. > There's no good leader that was willing to abandon people to that fate until the public exhausted of the war as it has. The US public has been exhausted of spending on other nations since the 2008 recession.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      > waiting out for all the old people to die. The young people are more militant than the old people because of the invasion; so that wouldn't work. The only thing that would work (whatever working means in this context) was a program of mass extermination and colonization. We invaded a country that was ruled by the Taliban. We installed a puppet government by force. Now that we're leaving, it's going the way of Vichy.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        True, I guess I meant installing a puppet government and then letting them do the deeds over a sufficient number of generations.
baybal2 5y ago
> There was never a right time to bail out; the US and allies have invested hundreds of billions in infrastructure I will be very glad to see even 1km of straight road in that country. These billions in infrastructure, and development aid are nowhere to be seen in Afghanistan.
pessimizer 5y ago
> the world was in agreement about the Taliban and their war crimes. This is not true. Our only accusation was that they had allowed a group of Saudis to live there.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

The US already did this exact thing in the 1980s, and they even made a popular movie about it (Charlie Wilson’s War) that came out in 2007 and spelled out consequences of not investing for the long, long term at the end of the movie. Politically, invading Afghanistan to get Osama was impossible to avoid since something had to be done. But after Osama was killed, I do not understand what possible motivation the US had for staying there other than enriching players in the military industrial complex.

crazy_horse 5y ago
If they left in 2012 the Taliban would have done then what they re doing now. There's no good leader that was willing to abandon people to that fate until the public exhausted of the war as it has.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > If they left in 2012 the Taliban would have done then what they re doing now. Yes, that is my point. The options were Taliban (or other tribal groups) take over, or the US spends the next 100 years rebuilding Afghan society and waiting out for all the old people to die. > There's no good leader that was willing to abandon people to that fate until the public exhausted of the war as it has. The US public has been exhausted of spending on other nations since the 2008 recession.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    > waiting out for all the old people to die. The young people are more militant than the old people because of the invasion; so that wouldn't work. The only thing that would work (whatever working means in this context) was a program of mass extermination and colonization. We invaded a country that was ruled by the Taliban. We installed a puppet government by force. Now that we're leaving, it's going the way of Vichy.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      True, I guess I meant installing a puppet government and then letting them do the deeds over a sufficient number of generations.

baybal2 5y ago

> There was never a right time to bail out; the US and allies have invested hundreds of billions in infrastructure I will be very glad to see even 1km of straight road in that country. These billions in infrastructure, and development aid are nowhere to be seen in Afghanistan.

pessimizer 5y ago

> the world was in agreement about the Taliban and their war crimes. This is not true. Our only accusation was that they had allowed a group of Saudis to live there.