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> Natural immunity is globally inferior to vaccinated immunity. Cool, tell me more. I have a background in biophysics (with a touch of immunology and virology

by alecst 5y ago

> Natural immunity is globally inferior to vaccinated immunity. Cool, tell me more. I have a background in biophysics (with a touch of immunology and virology) but I don't know a whole lot about that. I'm not up-to-date on all the latest covid science, but I don't think I remember many cases of people getting reinfected.

MengerSponge 5y ago
It was a lifetime ago, but remember this story in January? https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/full... Nuclear physicist here, so I can't hang when it comes to crunchy immunological details, but here's the gist as I understand it: The vaccines use a designed and stabilized version of the spike protein, which leads to antibodies that bind more strongly and thus more effectively. People aren't likely to be reinfected by the same strain, but mutations can reconfigure the spike protein slightly, making it bind more strongly to cells, and less strongly to those antibodies. "Naturally" derived antibodies may be as good as the ones from a vaccine, but that's a gamble. In aggregate, people who have been previously infected (with a strain other than delta) are more likely to catch/have poor outcomes from delta than people who are fully vaccinated, by a factor of 2-3. This is a fairly recent result, and I can't find the reference, sadly. The absolute risk is low, but the relative risk is huge. Also, when you look at the total risk budget, again, vaccinated immunity just swamps natural immunity. It's only the naturalistic fallacy to think otherwise.
- alecst 5y ago
  Yea it would be cool to see the reference if you can find it, because the position one takes depends a lot on the crunchy details.
- dsyrk 5y ago
  You have completely misunderstood the CDC article I think you are referring to. It proved that recovered individuals benefit some also getting a single vaccine dose. It didn’t measure recovered vs vaccinated. Recovered individuals have vastly superior immunity to variants than vaccinated. mRNA vaccines have been show to drop significantly in preventing infections after 6 months. Natural immunity doesn’t and also you have a profound misunderstanding, natural immune system targets many locations on the virus not just the spike protein. Reinfection rates are estimated to be well under 1%, meaning 99% effectiveness, Pfizer is now estimated to 40% effective against infection.

by alecst 5y ago

MengerSponge 5y ago

It was a lifetime ago, but remember this story in January? https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(21)00183-5/full... Nuclear physicist here, so I can't hang when it comes to crunchy immunological details, but here's the gist as I understand it: The vaccines use a designed and stabilized version of the spike protein, which leads to antibodies that bind more strongly and thus more effectively. People aren't likely to be reinfected by the same strain, but mutations can reconfigure the spike protein slightly, making it bind more strongly to cells, and less strongly to those antibodies. "Naturally" derived antibodies may be as good as the ones from a vaccine, but that's a gamble. In aggregate, people who have been previously infected (with a strain other than delta) are more likely to catch/have poor outcomes from delta than people who are fully vaccinated, by a factor of 2-3. This is a fairly recent result, and I can't find the reference, sadly. The absolute risk is low, but the relative risk is huge. Also, when you look at the total risk budget, again, vaccinated immunity just swamps natural immunity. It's only the naturalistic fallacy to think otherwise.

alecst 5y ago
Yea it would be cool to see the reference if you can find it, because the position one takes depends a lot on the crunchy details.
dsyrk 5y ago
You have completely misunderstood the CDC article I think you are referring to. It proved that recovered individuals benefit some also getting a single vaccine dose. It didn’t measure recovered vs vaccinated. Recovered individuals have vastly superior immunity to variants than vaccinated. mRNA vaccines have been show to drop significantly in preventing infections after 6 months. Natural immunity doesn’t and also you have a profound misunderstanding, natural immune system targets many locations on the virus not just the spike protein. Reinfection rates are estimated to be well under 1%, meaning 99% effectiveness, Pfizer is now estimated to 40% effective against infection.