4 ms·

That sounds hilariously demoralizing. Talk about Pavlovian training in the wrong direction, every time I find a way to boost the value of my company, I have to

by ericd 5y ago

That sounds hilariously demoralizing. Talk about Pavlovian training in the wrong direction, every time I find a way to boost the value of my company, I have to sign more of it over the government.

jayjader 5y ago
It depend on what is done with said boost. It would go straight into your wallet? Makes perfect sense to me for the government to get an additional cut. It would go straight into the companies' salaries? No reason for the government to touch it more than it already does. Obviously, there's room for nuance and it's not just one or the other.
- ericd 5y ago
  Company value is decreased when earnings are dividended out “into your wallet” or paid out in salaries, so I’m talking about neither.
  - jayjader 5y ago
    obviously, just like I'm talking about what you _do_ with the increase. Are you really just saying to leave the increase in value alone? Then why pursue it? I'm under the impression that an increase in company value is not an end to itself, it's a means to an end (more investment, more dividends, higher sell-off/buy-off price, increased stock price, etc - all are more probable when company valuation increases). So why are you looking to increase your company's value?
    - ericd 5y ago
      Basically, for most founders past the point where material comfort stops mattering, I think it’s power. The power to do what you want in the world. More ambitious projects, especially. Eventually that can get to extreme heights, like trying to design rockets that go to Mars, or trying to stamp out malaria.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Yes, that's kinda the point I think. You could save a bunch of money by filling your product with asbestos and making employees pee in jugs, or you could just, you know, not do that because then you have to hand over more control of your business to the government. Granted, this also disincentives societally beneficial efficiency increases.
- ericd 5y ago
  You realize that those examples are the extreme exceptions that the press has made hay out of, and aren’t representative, right? Most company value boosting actions are much more boring. I wonder how much of this backlash is just a result of people being propagandized to by the media’s steady drumbeat about corporate abuses since the GFC.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    I am not convinced that these are exceptions. By and large, corporations are run by people who see no problem with exploiting others and the more successful they are, it seems, the more willing they are to exploit. That's why we invented unions, and labor regulations, and all the other regulations for that matter and it still isn't enough to stop them from doing it. Texaco dumped a bunch of waste in the Amazon and refused to clean it up or pay for it. Why is this not surprising to anybody? Oh, right, because we all know that this sort of thing happens all the goddamned time.

by ericd 5y ago

That sounds hilariously demoralizing. Talk about Pavlovian training in the wrong direction, every time I find a way to boost the value of my company, I have to sign more of it over the government.

jayjader 5y ago

It depend on what is done with said boost. It would go straight into your wallet? Makes perfect sense to me for the government to get an additional cut. It would go straight into the companies' salaries? No reason for the government to touch it more than it already does. Obviously, there's room for nuance and it's not just one or the other.

ericd 5y ago
Company value is decreased when earnings are dividended out “into your wallet” or paid out in salaries, so I’m talking about neither.
- jayjader 5y ago
  obviously, just like I'm talking about what you _do_ with the increase. Are you really just saying to leave the increase in value alone? Then why pursue it? I'm under the impression that an increase in company value is not an end to itself, it's a means to an end (more investment, more dividends, higher sell-off/buy-off price, increased stock price, etc - all are more probable when company valuation increases). So why are you looking to increase your company's value?
  - ericd 5y ago
    Basically, for most founders past the point where material comfort stops mattering, I think it’s power. The power to do what you want in the world. More ambitious projects, especially. Eventually that can get to extreme heights, like trying to design rockets that go to Mars, or trying to stamp out malaria.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

Yes, that's kinda the point I think. You could save a bunch of money by filling your product with asbestos and making employees pee in jugs, or you could just, you know, not do that because then you have to hand over more control of your business to the government. Granted, this also disincentives societally beneficial efficiency increases.

ericd 5y ago
You realize that those examples are the extreme exceptions that the press has made hay out of, and aren’t representative, right? Most company value boosting actions are much more boring. I wonder how much of this backlash is just a result of people being propagandized to by the media’s steady drumbeat about corporate abuses since the GFC.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I am not convinced that these are exceptions. By and large, corporations are run by people who see no problem with exploiting others and the more successful they are, it seems, the more willing they are to exploit. That's why we invented unions, and labor regulations, and all the other regulations for that matter and it still isn't enough to stop them from doing it. Texaco dumped a bunch of waste in the Amazon and refused to clean it up or pay for it. Why is this not surprising to anybody? Oh, right, because we all know that this sort of thing happens all the goddamned time.