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> I read Wendell Berry quite a lot, and in one essay (I forget which) he posed a question, "where would our technology be if we had continued improving on simpl

> I read Wendell Berry quite a lot, and in one essay (I forget which) he posed a question, "where would our technology be if we had continued improving on simple things like the plow, without using combustion engines" We'd still have slaves. That's where we'd be. The development of steam, IC, and electric machinery is what actually put an end to slavery, by making it uneconomic. Slavery (or near-equivalents, such as serfdom) was a constant of virtually all human societies above the hunter-gatherer band level, until the development of powered equipment.

IncRnd 5y ago
Emancipation happened over 100 years ago, so no that is not what would have happened when imagining an alternative future starting 100 years in the past.
- Turing_Machine 5y ago
  > Emancipation happened over 100 years ago, So did the introduction of steam, IC, and electric machinery. Your quibble is with the OP. Emancipation happened right around the time of the introduction of large-scale steam power. This was not a coincidence.
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    That also doesn't apply to the conversation, which was about a branch of history that could have started 100 years ago, not 160 years ago.
    - Turing_Machine 5y ago
      The "conversation", such as it is, had its origin in the OP (or the person he's citing) incorrectly stating that the power revolution happened 100 years ago. It didn't. Now, some might try to argue that the process of eliminating slavery/serfdom just happened to coincide with the development of non-human-powered machinery (like maybe humans just somehow became more moral and less-prone to exploiting their fellow-humans). But you know what? That's basically just a load of crap. It doesn't explain the near-perfect correlation between the development of powered equipment and the disappearance of slavery/serfdom, world-wide, carried out over the course of centuries, appearing first (again, apparently just by coincidence) in the more technologically-advanced countries (such as Western Europe), and later in the less-technologically-advanced countries (such as Russia, Asia, and (at that time) the United States) Water, steam, internal combustion, and electricity is what ended slavery/serfdom. Get rid of those and slavery/serfdom will be back before you know it.
      - Turing_Machine 5y ago
        Note that even within the United States, slavery disappeared first in the industrialized North, and last in the rural South.
      - IncRnd 5y ago
        > The "conversation", such as it is, had its origin in the OP (or the person he's citing) incorrectly stating that the power revolution happened 100 years ago. It didn't. You are kind of inventing something that wasn't written. The OP wrote, "What if many of our machines used human power like they did 100 years ago, but were made far more efficient and effective than they were 100 years ago?"
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Emancipation (at least as is taught in south american schools) was a direct result of the industrial revolution
  - jimktrains2 5y ago
    But yet the industrial revolution, e.g. cotton gin and better ways to make textiles, made slavery more profitable for the owners.
- whoaisme 5y ago
  Blacks in the south were more or less slaves until 60 years ago. Slavery still exists in the world today. Your opinions reflect a totally sterile mind.

IncRnd 5y ago

Emancipation happened over 100 years ago, so no that is not what would have happened when imagining an alternative future starting 100 years in the past.

Turing_Machine 5y ago
> Emancipation happened over 100 years ago, So did the introduction of steam, IC, and electric machinery. Your quibble is with the OP. Emancipation happened right around the time of the introduction of large-scale steam power. This was not a coincidence.
- IncRnd 5y ago
  That also doesn't apply to the conversation, which was about a branch of history that could have started 100 years ago, not 160 years ago.
  - Turing_Machine 5y ago
    The "conversation", such as it is, had its origin in the OP (or the person he's citing) incorrectly stating that the power revolution happened 100 years ago. It didn't. Now, some might try to argue that the process of eliminating slavery/serfdom just happened to coincide with the development of non-human-powered machinery (like maybe humans just somehow became more moral and less-prone to exploiting their fellow-humans). But you know what? That's basically just a load of crap. It doesn't explain the near-perfect correlation between the development of powered equipment and the disappearance of slavery/serfdom, world-wide, carried out over the course of centuries, appearing first (again, apparently just by coincidence) in the more technologically-advanced countries (such as Western Europe), and later in the less-technologically-advanced countries (such as Russia, Asia, and (at that time) the United States) Water, steam, internal combustion, and electricity is what ended slavery/serfdom. Get rid of those and slavery/serfdom will be back before you know it.
    - Turing_Machine 5y ago
      Note that even within the United States, slavery disappeared first in the industrialized North, and last in the rural South.
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      > The "conversation", such as it is, had its origin in the OP (or the person he's citing) incorrectly stating that the power revolution happened 100 years ago. It didn't. You are kind of inventing something that wasn't written. The OP wrote, "What if many of our machines used human power like they did 100 years ago, but were made far more efficient and effective than they were 100 years ago?"
elzbardico 5y ago
Emancipation (at least as is taught in south american schools) was a direct result of the industrial revolution
- jimktrains2 5y ago
  But yet the industrial revolution, e.g. cotton gin and better ways to make textiles, made slavery more profitable for the owners.
whoaisme 5y ago
Blacks in the south were more or less slaves until 60 years ago. Slavery still exists in the world today. Your opinions reflect a totally sterile mind.