6 ms·

The most vaccine-hesitant group of all? PhDs – The Post

26 points by mrfusion 5y ago

silent_cal 5y ago
Can't wait to hear the spin on this one.
yodon 5y ago
The paper does not list any numbers for vaccination rates among PhDs, it only lists self-reported "vaccine hesitancy" numbers. There is zero data here to suggest actual vaccination rates among PhDs are lower than among the general public but the title of this paper will undoubtedly be used by vaccine skeptics to imply that PhDs aren't getting vaccinated.
- slimeh 5y ago
  Compared to the US population, the proportion of PhDs in their sample seems inflated, and the proportion of people with only a high school diploma is lower then expected. I wonder how much one can trust a self-reported PhD degree, especially from a survey collected on the internet.
- asjdflakjsdf 5y ago
  The post title doesn't suggest anything otherwise.. This is a paper about hesitancy.
  - sharemywin 5y ago
    but if it's self reported. It might only show that they are more willing to say they're hesitant. or they were willing to take a survey.
    - asjdflakjsdf 5y ago
      yep, I always find surveys to be a very lazy way of "doing science" but that is probably for another thread. The results of this survey do create an interesting (and in my opinion, believable) talking point, and maybe can lead to a better researched paper on the subject. I personally think that PhD students are more likely going to be cautious of anything they don't have a good understanding of. They would (imo) be inclined to do better research into the pros/cons of vaccination, which is not easy to do right now with all the noise online.
mygoodaccount 5y ago
The paper, if interested: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v... Note: I'm double-vaxxed. I'm tempted to believe it, but have to read the study first. If true, this almost reads like a Dunning-Kruger chart. I wonder if this might be because those with PhD's tend to be more inquisitive and skeptical. The top comment on the article also mentions a quote I thought was relevant: "Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them"
mandmandam 5y ago
There are many reasons that I wouldn't fault anyone for being 'hesitant' at this point: 1. For young people, the risks seem to outweigh the benefits. By no small margin either [0]. If your response to this is "but herd immunity", try to remember that this has been described as "mythological", given the leakiness of the vaccines, and the undue confidence socialising shown in the double jabbed. 2. The pharma companies are providing these vaccines in exchange for massive profit - tens of billions of dollars so far - while they simultaneously disallow any possible legal action. It's hard for me to believe that something is safe, while the manufacturer sells them on condition they won't be sued over any potential side-effects. 3. Pharma companies have a record of hiding data they don't like. They bribe academics and lawmakers, pressure newscasters, and have a looong history of testing vaccines and medications on unwilling / unknowing particiapants. Tip of the iceberg. 4. Mainstream media has given us many reasons to distrust it in the last, oh, 7 decades or so. Even more so recently. 5. The governments who are managing the pandemic the worst seem to be more interested in bringing in "vaccine passports", lockdowns, and mandatory vaccinations than actually hiring / training more nurses & building more ICU units. Where I am, the government has been caught having secret parties with vulture funds and large franchise operators; our Chief Medical Officer pretends antigen tests have no use; our Attorney General just changed the rules around social gatherings after our top leaders were caught at a party. 6. Better vaccines - by all accounts, ie Novavax - are on the horizon. 7. The utter disregard of human rights, civil liberties, and medical ethics shown by a horridly wide swathe of media and government, who are happy to dehumanise the vaccine hesitant in the name of [mythical] herd immunity. 8. The fact that this whole thing stinks; from the censorship of discussion regarding a lab-leak scenario, to the extreme politicisation of potential cures and hypotheses, to the simple brow-beating and straight-up death threats thrown at people outside the groupthink. [0] - https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.html https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.html - note that this is only death due to clots caused by vaccination vs Corona death, and does not include the vaccine's risk of myocarditis, pericarditis, GBS, CFS, lingering numbness and swelling, missing periods, Bell's palsy, etc. Also note that Moderna and Pfizer were shown to have similar clotting issues.
- rrss 5y ago
  > Also note that Moderna and Pfizer were shown to have similar clotting issues Do you have any links about this point?
egwynn 5y ago
previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28153814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28153814
goldcd 5y ago
Obviously as this doesn't align with what I was expecting, I'm going to try to pick holes in it. One thought, as this is facebook derived data and I don't believe they took up my references - maybe a load of people just chose the 'most educated option'

26 points by mrfusion 5y ago

Can't wait to hear the spin on this one.

The paper does not list any numbers for vaccination rates among PhDs, it only lists self-reported "vaccine hesitancy" numbers. There is zero data here to suggest actual vaccination rates among PhDs are lower than among the general public but the title of this paper will undoubtedly be used by vaccine skeptics to imply that PhDs aren't getting vaccinated.

slimeh 5y ago
Compared to the US population, the proportion of PhDs in their sample seems inflated, and the proportion of people with only a high school diploma is lower then expected. I wonder how much one can trust a self-reported PhD degree, especially from a survey collected on the internet.
asjdflakjsdf 5y ago
The post title doesn't suggest anything otherwise.. This is a paper about hesitancy.
- sharemywin 5y ago
  but if it's self reported. It might only show that they are more willing to say they're hesitant. or they were willing to take a survey.
  - asjdflakjsdf 5y ago
    yep, I always find surveys to be a very lazy way of "doing science" but that is probably for another thread. The results of this survey do create an interesting (and in my opinion, believable) talking point, and maybe can lead to a better researched paper on the subject. I personally think that PhD students are more likely going to be cautious of anything they don't have a good understanding of. They would (imo) be inclined to do better research into the pros/cons of vaccination, which is not easy to do right now with all the noise online.

mygoodaccount 5y ago

The paper, if interested: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v... Note: I'm double-vaxxed. I'm tempted to believe it, but have to read the study first. If true, this almost reads like a Dunning-Kruger chart. I wonder if this might be because those with PhD's tend to be more inquisitive and skeptical. The top comment on the article also mentions a quote I thought was relevant: "Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them"

mandmandam 5y ago

There are many reasons that I wouldn't fault anyone for being 'hesitant' at this point: 1. For young people, the risks seem to outweigh the benefits. By no small margin either [0]. If your response to this is "but herd immunity", try to remember that this has been described as "mythological", given the leakiness of the vaccines, and the undue confidence socialising shown in the double jabbed. 2. The pharma companies are providing these vaccines in exchange for massive profit - tens of billions of dollars so far - while they simultaneously disallow any possible legal action. It's hard for me to believe that something is safe, while the manufacturer sells them on condition they won't be sued over any potential side-effects. 3. Pharma companies have a record of hiding data they don't like. They bribe academics and lawmakers, pressure newscasters, and have a looong history of testing vaccines and medications on unwilling / unknowing particiapants. Tip of the iceberg. 4. Mainstream media has given us many reasons to distrust it in the last, oh, 7 decades or so. Even more so recently. 5. The governments who are managing the pandemic the worst seem to be more interested in bringing in "vaccine passports", lockdowns, and mandatory vaccinations than actually hiring / training more nurses & building more ICU units. Where I am, the government has been caught having secret parties with vulture funds and large franchise operators; our Chief Medical Officer pretends antigen tests have no use; our Attorney General just changed the rules around social gatherings after our top leaders were caught at a party. 6. Better vaccines - by all accounts, ie Novavax - are on the horizon. 7. The utter disregard of human rights, civil liberties, and medical ethics shown by a horridly wide swathe of media and government, who are happy to dehumanise the vaccine hesitant in the name of [mythical] herd immunity. 8. The fact that this whole thing stinks; from the censorship of discussion regarding a lab-leak scenario, to the extreme politicisation of potential cures and hypotheses, to the simple brow-beating and straight-up death threats thrown at people outside the groupthink. [0] - https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.html https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.html - note that this is only death due to clots caused by vaccination vs Corona death, and does not include the vaccine's risk of myocarditis, pericarditis, GBS, CFS, lingering numbness and swelling, missing periods, Bell's palsy, etc. Also note that Moderna and Pfizer were shown to have similar clotting issues.

rrss 5y ago
> Also note that Moderna and Pfizer were shown to have similar clotting issues Do you have any links about this point?

egwynn 5y ago

previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28153814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28153814

goldcd 5y ago

Obviously as this doesn't align with what I was expecting, I'm going to try to pick holes in it. One thought, as this is facebook derived data and I don't believe they took up my references - maybe a load of people just chose the 'most educated option'