10 ms·

I also would not be surprised if more American jobs are now hiring people on as contractors only, without the benefits.

mgkimsal 5y ago
If you get more $ in return... I don't see much downside. People will have to learn to run themselves as a business/contractor, and have a bit more discipline re: taxes. Getting a check for $3000 doesn't mean you can spend all $3000 immediately, etc. If we move in this direction more, we'll potentially chip away at some of the "employer=healthinsurance" mindset that has trapped so many people in less than optimal jobs.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  That's a big if. For jobs like being an Uber driver, the consensus seems to be that you get less money.
  - finiteseries 5y ago
    There’s a lot of overhead to being an independent contractor period, but they’re definitely not all manual labor who are on the hook for their equipment’s gas, insurance, maintenance, fees etc in “designed markets”
  - mgkimsal 5y ago
    Sure, but that's ... it seems to me many taxi folks were already 'independent' in some way beforehand (perhaps not all?). The payment model for that seems somewhat opaque anyway - you've got mileage/depreciation on a vehicle, fuel, no hourly base pay to start with (IIRC). For companies that employed an accountant onsite for, say, $70k/year, if they want to pay that accountant direct, say, $90k directly... fine.
neogodless 5y ago
Benefits are just an appealing name given to anything an employer chooses to spend money on instead of paying you that money (and the trade typically works in their favor). Certainly, there are cases where contract employment is offered with pay that does not compete well against full-time employment/salary plus benefits, but that is not always the case. Anecdotally, I've seen contracts done as W2 with benefits, even as a part-time employee. And I've seen 1099 contracts that far outpaid the W2 equivalent - in my case allowing me not only to pick and choose my benefits with plenty of money left over (even after paying self-employment taxes), but also using the U.S. tax system to great advantage, putting a very large portion of my gross pay into tax-advantaged accounts[0]. [0] https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/one-participant-401k-plans https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/one-participant-401k-pl...
- SQueeeeeL 5y ago
  Umm, we live in a hell world without universal healthcare. Until that changes bennies are pretty important
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    In my understanding, in all developed countries except US there is universal healthcare.
  - amitport 5y ago
    I think the point was that some employers may pay you more than enough for you to pay for your own health insurance (even after tax deductions). (I'm not in the US, you seem to have your own hell there, but still, every 'benefit' has a price tag, no?)
    - runevault 5y ago
      Companies of any real size tend to get better rates than most individuals can get because they can average things out over a larger group of people, since odds are a decent % of the people won't need to spend a significant amount on health care any given year. So while there is some cost to the employee it is still probably doing better than if they simply put that money directly in your pocket. But yes US healthcare is insane.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        In my experience, healthcare.gov pricing for health insurance and the premiums paid by employers are all roughly the same for comparable level plans (by metal level).
  - neogodless 5y ago
    Are you saying that you are unable to purchase health insurance in your hell world? I live in the United States, and when I was working as a 1099 contract worker, I bought health insurance for my family for little more than what an employer deducts from my paycheck. It was actually a very nice plan.
the_only_law 5y ago
Are they offering rates that offset the cost of that stuff? Most contracts I see absolutely suck because they just offer what an equivalent full time roles would with an additional tax burden.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  I think it depends on the role. I got a 75% raise when I switched to contracting. I have a year to year contract but everyone else here on the same contract has been here multiple years. I work for a contracting company and they contract me out to a unicorn company. Pay is good, hours are good and when they aren't I get paid OT.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    > I work for a contracting company and they contract me out to a unicorn company How do you find good contracting firms? All I’ve ever seen are body shops.
    - wonderwonder 5y ago
      This is my first one so don't take my advice as gospel, I may have just gotten lucky. What I have always done is updated my resume on Monster and linked In and set whatever settings are needed to allow recruiters to contact me. The calls and emails just start coming in then. Sometimes those calls are from people that don't speak the best of English or have a thick accent, those are the ones I have gotten my current job and another really good W2 job with. Helps if you are not desperate to switch jobs. I was able to negotiate a higher wage as I was willing to walk after giving 2 great interviews. Negotiated an extra 30k onto my salary and I get paid hourly OT if I work over 40 hours a week or for any weekend work.
dudul 5y ago
This could actually be an interesting path to get out of the "employer sponsored health care" mess that we have now. Pay people a bit more and create a bigger incentive for carriers to offer interesting plans to individuals.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  All legislators have to do is not offer a tax break for employer subsidized benefits. However, this will be lobbied against by the large employers because they maintain a competitive advantage over small employers since they can afford to do all the paperwork that goes into offering the benefits.

If you get more $ in return... I don't see much downside. People will have to learn to run themselves as a business/contractor, and have a bit more discipline re: taxes. Getting a check for $3000 doesn't mean you can spend all $3000 immediately, etc. If we move in this direction more, we'll potentially chip away at some of the "employer=healthinsurance" mindset that has trapped so many people in less than optimal jobs.

seoaeu 5y ago
That's a big if. For jobs like being an Uber driver, the consensus seems to be that you get less money.
- finiteseries 5y ago
  There’s a lot of overhead to being an independent contractor period, but they’re definitely not all manual labor who are on the hook for their equipment’s gas, insurance, maintenance, fees etc in “designed markets”
- mgkimsal 5y ago
  Sure, but that's ... it seems to me many taxi folks were already 'independent' in some way beforehand (perhaps not all?). The payment model for that seems somewhat opaque anyway - you've got mileage/depreciation on a vehicle, fuel, no hourly base pay to start with (IIRC). For companies that employed an accountant onsite for, say, $70k/year, if they want to pay that accountant direct, say, $90k directly... fine.

neogodless 5y ago

Benefits are just an appealing name given to anything an employer chooses to spend money on instead of paying you that money (and the trade typically works in their favor). Certainly, there are cases where contract employment is offered with pay that does not compete well against full-time employment/salary plus benefits, but that is not always the case. Anecdotally, I've seen contracts done as W2 with benefits, even as a part-time employee. And I've seen 1099 contracts that far outpaid the W2 equivalent - in my case allowing me not only to pick and choose my benefits with plenty of money left over (even after paying self-employment taxes), but also using the U.S. tax system to great advantage, putting a very large portion of my gross pay into tax-advantaged accounts[0]. [0] https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/one-participant-401k-plans https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/one-participant-401k-pl...

SQueeeeeL 5y ago
Umm, we live in a hell world without universal healthcare. Until that changes bennies are pretty important
- goodpoint 5y ago
  In my understanding, in all developed countries except US there is universal healthcare.
- amitport 5y ago
  I think the point was that some employers may pay you more than enough for you to pay for your own health insurance (even after tax deductions). (I'm not in the US, you seem to have your own hell there, but still, every 'benefit' has a price tag, no?)
  - runevault 5y ago
    Companies of any real size tend to get better rates than most individuals can get because they can average things out over a larger group of people, since odds are a decent % of the people won't need to spend a significant amount on health care any given year. So while there is some cost to the employee it is still probably doing better than if they simply put that money directly in your pocket. But yes US healthcare is insane.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      In my experience, healthcare.gov pricing for health insurance and the premiums paid by employers are all roughly the same for comparable level plans (by metal level).
- neogodless 5y ago
  Are you saying that you are unable to purchase health insurance in your hell world? I live in the United States, and when I was working as a 1099 contract worker, I bought health insurance for my family for little more than what an employer deducts from my paycheck. It was actually a very nice plan.

the_only_law 5y ago

Are they offering rates that offset the cost of that stuff? Most contracts I see absolutely suck because they just offer what an equivalent full time roles would with an additional tax burden.

wonderwonder 5y ago
I think it depends on the role. I got a 75% raise when I switched to contracting. I have a year to year contract but everyone else here on the same contract has been here multiple years. I work for a contracting company and they contract me out to a unicorn company. Pay is good, hours are good and when they aren't I get paid OT.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  > I work for a contracting company and they contract me out to a unicorn company How do you find good contracting firms? All I’ve ever seen are body shops.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    This is my first one so don't take my advice as gospel, I may have just gotten lucky. What I have always done is updated my resume on Monster and linked In and set whatever settings are needed to allow recruiters to contact me. The calls and emails just start coming in then. Sometimes those calls are from people that don't speak the best of English or have a thick accent, those are the ones I have gotten my current job and another really good W2 job with. Helps if you are not desperate to switch jobs. I was able to negotiate a higher wage as I was willing to walk after giving 2 great interviews. Negotiated an extra 30k onto my salary and I get paid hourly OT if I work over 40 hours a week or for any weekend work.

dudul 5y ago

This could actually be an interesting path to get out of the "employer sponsored health care" mess that we have now. Pay people a bit more and create a bigger incentive for carriers to offer interesting plans to individuals.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
All legislators have to do is not offer a tax break for employer subsidized benefits. However, this will be lobbied against by the large employers because they maintain a competitive advantage over small employers since they can afford to do all the paperwork that goes into offering the benefits.