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Correct, the availability of guns does not equal violence with guns, one example is Switzerland where nearly every 18-30 yo male has a full automatic assault ri

by nix23 5y ago

Correct, the availability of guns does not equal violence with guns, one example is Switzerland where nearly every 18-30 yo male has a full automatic assault rifle (aka sturm-gewehr) under his bed, ammunition can be easily obtained at the shooting-range, and nearly no crime is done with it, the illegal obtained handguns are the much bigger problem, and talking about suicide (which i don't see as a criminal act, but a lost chance to help) i think it's much better to shoot you at home then to jump in front of trains.

mikepurvis 5y ago
Switzerland is a common talking point, but the practice and culture of gun ownership there is very different, just one small example: "People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland. The law also states that anyone who 'expresses a violent or dangerous attitude' won't be permitted to own a gun. Gun owners who want to carry their weapon for 'defensive purposes' also have to prove they can properly load, unload, and shoot their weapon and must pass a test to get a license." https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-o... https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/0307/Switzerland-has-lots-of-guns.-But-its-gun-culture-takes-different-path-from-US https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/0307/Switzerland... Do these sound like the kinds of regulations that the NRA and typical 2A types could get behind? If not, then it seems to me they're not really interested in following a "Swiss model" and are just making a bad-faith argument based on the top line numbers.
- int_19h 5y ago
  FWIW, people who have been convicted of a felony, or are addicted to illegal drugs, are not allowed to buy guns in US, either. But yes, they're generally more strict about who can own a firearm, as opposed to what firearms can be owned. Czechia is pretty similar. That was kinda my point. I also have to note that "the NRA and typical 2A types" do not represent all pro-gun-minded people in US. For example: https://theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/stances-regarding-regulation/ https://theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/stances-regarding-reg...
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    I wish that the non-NRA pro-gun people and organizations were a lot more vocal and got more airtime. In the absence of a clear "we like our guns but dislike the NRA and its politics" message, it's easy to wonder if there may be a sizable gun-owning population who doesn't actively support the NRA, but are perhaps privately grateful that it exists in a bad cop, end-justifies-the-means kind of way.
    - nix23 5y ago
      Well your are talking about the US, there is just pro or contra...let's change that first...like having NOT a 2 party system ;)
    - int_19h 5y ago
      I wish we got more airtime! I think the reason why organizations like LGC do not, is because they don't really have much if any political clout in Democratic politics - primaries etc - the way NRA does on the right (Republican politicians jokingly refer to it as Never Re-elected Again, because of how much influence it has on the primaries).
- nix23 5y ago
  >People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland. Just the crime thing (more if your a driver etc) is being tested when entering military service..and in your service time you don't own the rifle, after service you can obtain it but it's getting refitted to half-auto. And yes the culture to guns is different and that was exactly my point, it's not the availability of guns but the culture too it, is it a sports thing like a bow and not a status/might/cowboy/survival-symbol. BTW: It pretty much impossible to have a gun for self defense, the training is pretty hard (like police/security..i mean you shoot in public space...that's a bit more responsibility then to load/unload correctly) and you need a real point, like being a prosecutor for organized crime and being already threatened...otherwise impossible. BUT i remember in the past >20 years, nearly every jeweler had a license.

by nix23 5y ago

mikepurvis 5y ago

Switzerland is a common talking point, but the practice and culture of gun ownership there is very different, just one small example: "People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland. The law also states that anyone who 'expresses a violent or dangerous attitude' won't be permitted to own a gun. Gun owners who want to carry their weapon for 'defensive purposes' also have to prove they can properly load, unload, and shoot their weapon and must pass a test to get a license." https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-o... https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/0307/Switzerland-has-lots-of-guns.-But-its-gun-culture-takes-different-path-from-US https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2018/0307/Switzerland... Do these sound like the kinds of regulations that the NRA and typical 2A types could get behind? If not, then it seems to me they're not really interested in following a "Swiss model" and are just making a bad-faith argument based on the top line numbers.

int_19h 5y ago
FWIW, people who have been convicted of a felony, or are addicted to illegal drugs, are not allowed to buy guns in US, either. But yes, they're generally more strict about who can own a firearm, as opposed to what firearms can be owned. Czechia is pretty similar. That was kinda my point. I also have to note that "the NRA and typical 2A types" do not represent all pro-gun-minded people in US. For example: https://theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/stances-regarding-regulation/ https://theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/stances-regarding-reg...
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  I wish that the non-NRA pro-gun people and organizations were a lot more vocal and got more airtime. In the absence of a clear "we like our guns but dislike the NRA and its politics" message, it's easy to wonder if there may be a sizable gun-owning population who doesn't actively support the NRA, but are perhaps privately grateful that it exists in a bad cop, end-justifies-the-means kind of way.
  - nix23 5y ago
    Well your are talking about the US, there is just pro or contra...let's change that first...like having NOT a 2 party system ;)
  - int_19h 5y ago
    I wish we got more airtime! I think the reason why organizations like LGC do not, is because they don't really have much if any political clout in Democratic politics - primaries etc - the way NRA does on the right (Republican politicians jokingly refer to it as Never Re-elected Again, because of how much influence it has on the primaries).
nix23 5y ago
>People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland. Just the crime thing (more if your a driver etc) is being tested when entering military service..and in your service time you don't own the rifle, after service you can obtain it but it's getting refitted to half-auto. And yes the culture to guns is different and that was exactly my point, it's not the availability of guns but the culture too it, is it a sports thing like a bow and not a status/might/cowboy/survival-symbol. BTW: It pretty much impossible to have a gun for self defense, the training is pretty hard (like police/security..i mean you shoot in public space...that's a bit more responsibility then to load/unload correctly) and you need a real point, like being a prosecutor for organized crime and being already threatened...otherwise impossible. BUT i remember in the past >20 years, nearly every jeweler had a license.