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That embargo is always such a mystery to me. Why on earth is it still in place in 2021? Is it because no US politician want to submit a motion for it to be rep

That embargo is always such a mystery to me. Why on earth is it still in place in 2021? Is it because no US politician want to submit a motion for it to be repealed? Or is there a powerful anti-Cuba lobby keeping it there? So much misery can be lifted with little effort by so few, yet here we are.

pjc50 5y ago
> is there a powerful anti-Cuba lobby keeping it there? Yes. Basically few Americans care either way about Cuba, except for the descendants of those who fled the revolution, who are absolutely furious about it. That has a big effect in Florida.
input_sh 5y ago
Two months ago the UN voted on ending the embargo on Cuba (though they've been doing that since 1992). 184 countries voted to end the embargo, 3 abstained from voting, and only two countries voted against: US and Israel. https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/06/1094612 https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/06/1094612
enaaem 5y ago
Cuba can still trade with the rest of the world like the EU, Russia, China and Canada.
- Mengkudulangsat 5y ago
  Well of course, but that's not a good reason to prevent them from trading with the US.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  The "gravity model of trade" is still approximately true which TL;DR states that it is easiest to trade the most with your largest neighbours. For Cuba, that means Florida (and after that, Mexico and Central American countries). Yes Cuba _can_ trade with more distant partners, but it is less preferable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade https://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Global_economics/Gravity_theory_of_trade.html https://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Global_economics/Gravity_t...
- anticodon 5y ago
  US sanctions usually attempt to prohibit not only trade with USA but also with all the countries under influence of USA (most of the world). E.g. China cannot import some items from EU, although they are not under EU sanctions, but because USA effectively controls EU and prohibits trade of some goods with China. Same with Russia. E.g. every time Russia tries to sell weapons to some third country, USA attempts to create a pressure to cancel the deal. I'm sure Cuba suffers from similar restrictions. Anyway, no matter what you do, an island with almost no mineral resources, no source of energy, will always suffer. It doesn't matter whether the government is capitalist or socialist, what currency you use, whether there's embargo or not. People living in Cuba will be always poor. It's impossible to change that because it would contradict fundamental laws of the universe: you need resources to grow, you need energy. It's just that now all of them have more or less the same income. If they'd return to capitalist system, very few will become extremely rich (drug suppliers, brothel owners) and the rest will become extremely poor. Just the way it was before revolution.
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  That's not quite true. In Brazil, a few years ago, there was a case of a federal university that purchased Dell workstations for their labs. Dell told them to stop all relations with Cuba, including academic research as otherwise they wouldn't be able to fulfill the order because of the embargo. Even though the Brazilian arm of Dell is a Brazilian company, registered in the country and has to follow Brazilian laws, Dell US would be sanctioned if they allowed this transaction to happen. Last I heard, Brazilian Ministries and the Federal justice system were sueing Dell Brazil. I don't know what was the outcome and could never find information on it. Sure, they could try to source their lab computers elsewhere, but do you know of any computers that are 100% US-free?
tragomaskhalos 5y ago
Tragically it would likely be political suicide in a country where a significant proportion of the population believe that even something like a free-at-point-of-use healthcare system like Britain's is "dangerously socialist".
otherme123 5y ago
The embargo has no mistery. You can be pro or against it (I'm against), but it has solid bases. Current regime stole/seized/expropiate a lot of USA business assets in Cuba in 1960 (valued today around $6 billion), so it's USA right to embargo the country. Given the economical assymetry, USA can keep the embargo forever without consequences. Some countries were in the same position as USA of assets seized by the regime, but they accepted symbolic paybacks. USA didn't, probably because they didn't like Cuba destabilizing the Caribean region in the Cold War. At the time, they probably believed that the embargo will damage Cuba regime and cause a quick coup, nobody thought that the regime will survive more than a decade. Through time this has become a political matter (softening the embargo loses votes in USA, specially in Florida; paying back would expose the regime failure in Cuba when the boogeyman is gone), so both sides at political level are very interested in mantaining the embargo. I tend to see politics as a game of staying in power as long as possible, and here we have a Nash equilibrium where trying to end the embargo goes against both parts. Some people believes (I do) that the embargo helps the regime. There's no "anti-Cuba" lobby: there's a "anti-Castro lobby". Sadly, this lobby believes in the embargo, and sees its lifting as a weak position against Castro regime.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > there's a "anti-Castro lobby". Sadly, this lobby believes in the embargo, And Ironically, the current Cuban government's problem seem to be due, in part, to the availability of internet to Cubans, which happened when the embargo was softened.

pjc50 5y ago

> is there a powerful anti-Cuba lobby keeping it there? Yes. Basically few Americans care either way about Cuba, except for the descendants of those who fled the revolution, who are absolutely furious about it. That has a big effect in Florida.

input_sh 5y ago

Two months ago the UN voted on ending the embargo on Cuba (though they've been doing that since 1992). 184 countries voted to end the embargo, 3 abstained from voting, and only two countries voted against: US and Israel. https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/06/1094612 https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/06/1094612

enaaem 5y ago

Cuba can still trade with the rest of the world like the EU, Russia, China and Canada.

Mengkudulangsat 5y ago
Well of course, but that's not a good reason to prevent them from trading with the US.
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
The "gravity model of trade" is still approximately true which TL;DR states that it is easiest to trade the most with your largest neighbours. For Cuba, that means Florida (and after that, Mexico and Central American countries). Yes Cuba _can_ trade with more distant partners, but it is less preferable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_model_of_trade https://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Global_economics/Gravity_theory_of_trade.html https://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Global_economics/Gravity_t...
anticodon 5y ago
US sanctions usually attempt to prohibit not only trade with USA but also with all the countries under influence of USA (most of the world). E.g. China cannot import some items from EU, although they are not under EU sanctions, but because USA effectively controls EU and prohibits trade of some goods with China. Same with Russia. E.g. every time Russia tries to sell weapons to some third country, USA attempts to create a pressure to cancel the deal. I'm sure Cuba suffers from similar restrictions. Anyway, no matter what you do, an island with almost no mineral resources, no source of energy, will always suffer. It doesn't matter whether the government is capitalist or socialist, what currency you use, whether there's embargo or not. People living in Cuba will be always poor. It's impossible to change that because it would contradict fundamental laws of the universe: you need resources to grow, you need energy. It's just that now all of them have more or less the same income. If they'd return to capitalist system, very few will become extremely rich (drug suppliers, brothel owners) and the rest will become extremely poor. Just the way it was before revolution.
cassianoleal 5y ago
That's not quite true. In Brazil, a few years ago, there was a case of a federal university that purchased Dell workstations for their labs. Dell told them to stop all relations with Cuba, including academic research as otherwise they wouldn't be able to fulfill the order because of the embargo. Even though the Brazilian arm of Dell is a Brazilian company, registered in the country and has to follow Brazilian laws, Dell US would be sanctioned if they allowed this transaction to happen. Last I heard, Brazilian Ministries and the Federal justice system were sueing Dell Brazil. I don't know what was the outcome and could never find information on it. Sure, they could try to source their lab computers elsewhere, but do you know of any computers that are 100% US-free?

tragomaskhalos 5y ago

Tragically it would likely be political suicide in a country where a significant proportion of the population believe that even something like a free-at-point-of-use healthcare system like Britain's is "dangerously socialist".

otherme123 5y ago

The embargo has no mistery. You can be pro or against it (I'm against), but it has solid bases. Current regime stole/seized/expropiate a lot of USA business assets in Cuba in 1960 (valued today around $6 billion), so it's USA right to embargo the country. Given the economical assymetry, USA can keep the embargo forever without consequences. Some countries were in the same position as USA of assets seized by the regime, but they accepted symbolic paybacks. USA didn't, probably because they didn't like Cuba destabilizing the Caribean region in the Cold War. At the time, they probably believed that the embargo will damage Cuba regime and cause a quick coup, nobody thought that the regime will survive more than a decade. Through time this has become a political matter (softening the embargo loses votes in USA, specially in Florida; paying back would expose the regime failure in Cuba when the boogeyman is gone), so both sides at political level are very interested in mantaining the embargo. I tend to see politics as a game of staying in power as long as possible, and here we have a Nash equilibrium where trying to end the embargo goes against both parts. Some people believes (I do) that the embargo helps the regime. There's no "anti-Cuba" lobby: there's a "anti-Castro lobby". Sadly, this lobby believes in the embargo, and sees its lifting as a weak position against Castro regime.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> there's a "anti-Castro lobby". Sadly, this lobby believes in the embargo, And Ironically, the current Cuban government's problem seem to be due, in part, to the availability of internet to Cubans, which happened when the embargo was softened.