4 ms·

Thank you for the clear explanation. Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for exampl

Thank you for the clear explanation. Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors. Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks?

adrianN 5y ago
It looks like infected vaccinated people can transmit the disease just as much as unvaccinated people, so yes.
Tepix 5y ago
Luckily in Germany masks are still mandatory indoors. Also Istael has reinstated the indoor mask requirement after the number of infections increased dramatically even with many vaccinated people
- Semaphor 5y ago
  And just to complete this, in Germany surgical or FFP2/(K)N95 masks are mandatory indoors, face shields or cloth masks are not acceptable.
- skocznymroczny 5y ago
  Why luckily? There's limited proof of any efficiency of masks.
  - dalu 5y ago
    Please don't spread disinformation
  - adrianN 5y ago
    Is there solid data that shows no efficiency? Masks are fairly cheap, if they help even a little they're worthwhile.
jbigelow76 5y ago
Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks? Not crazy about the wording of that sentence; it reads, to me at least, that the vaccinated kind of "duped" the un-vaccinated into thinking intermingling was safe. It removes the agency from the un-vaccinated, as if remaining both un-vaccinated[1] and mitigation of possible exposure is beyond their control. (Nobody asked me but...) I would have worded it more like: "Does this mean that the un-vaccinated, hoping to parlay herd immunity into abdication of personal and societal responsibility, ended up playing themselves?"[2] [1] I'm separating the legit medically immuno-compromised from voluntarily un-vaxxed. [2] I'm in Texas and was fully vaccinated as early as possible with two kids that can't be vaccinated yet and am currently watching a surge drown our local hospitals so I'm super fucking jaded.
walterbell 5y ago
Statistically most people, vaccinated or non-vaccinated, are not infected. Once infected, both vaccinated or non-vaccinated can transmit if there is sufficiently high viral load. Normally, a high viral load causes symptoms that would cause someone to self-isolate or fail a temperature check, reducing transmission. Because a vaccinated person can be infected without symptoms, there may be some cases where they should be isolating, but are not, and are thus transmitting to anyone, vaccinated or not. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210729/cdc-reverses-guidance-testing-fully-vaccinated-people https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210729/cdc-reverses-guidan... > Even if they’re not showing symptoms, fully vaccinated people should “get tested 3-5 days after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19 and wear a mask in public indoor settings for 14 days after exposure or until they receive a negative test result,” the agency’s website says. The CDC previously said fully vaccinated people didn’t need testing after exposure unless they showed symptoms. “Our updated guidance recommends vaccinated people get tested upon exposure regardless of symptoms,” CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, MD, told The New York Times in an email. “Testing is widely available.” Stanford University will test all students, including those who are vaccinated, https://twitter.com/stanforddaily/status/1425554996683149313 https://twitter.com/stanforddaily/status/1425554996683149313 A subset of all populations globally, especially in young people, have already recovered from a Covid variant and have some natural immunity, which is sterilizing immunity (both upper respiratory system--since that is how they got naturally infected--and serum antibodies + T-cells). Governments have the option of performing national sero-surveys to statistically estimate the percentage who are already immune without a vaccine. Individuals who can afford to pay for testing can determine if they have natural immunity, including the newest FDA-EUA test for T-cells (costs $210 with blood draw, only in US for now), https://t-detect.com https://t-detect.com
- fho 5y ago
  Doesn't that also mean that vaccinated people somewhat benefit from being infected? Shouldn't they develop natural immunity from that?
rsynnott 5y ago
> Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors. That's a national policy thing; in Ireland, for instance, you can use the covid pass to go to a pub or restaurant, but if you're in an indoors public space you are still required to wear a mask. Same in France and Germany AIUI.

adrianN 5y ago

It looks like infected vaccinated people can transmit the disease just as much as unvaccinated people, so yes.

Tepix 5y ago

Luckily in Germany masks are still mandatory indoors. Also Istael has reinstated the indoor mask requirement after the number of infections increased dramatically even with many vaccinated people

Semaphor 5y ago
And just to complete this, in Germany surgical or FFP2/(K)N95 masks are mandatory indoors, face shields or cloth masks are not acceptable.
skocznymroczny 5y ago
Why luckily? There's limited proof of any efficiency of masks.
- dalu 5y ago
  Please don't spread disinformation
- adrianN 5y ago
  Is there solid data that shows no efficiency? Masks are fairly cheap, if they help even a little they're worthwhile.

jbigelow76 5y ago

Does this mean that Covid passports actually help spread Covid from vaccinated to non-vaccinated people who mix together without masks? Not crazy about the wording of that sentence; it reads, to me at least, that the vaccinated kind of "duped" the un-vaccinated into thinking intermingling was safe. It removes the agency from the un-vaccinated, as if remaining both un-vaccinated[1] and mitigation of possible exposure is beyond their control. (Nobody asked me but...) I would have worded it more like: "Does this mean that the un-vaccinated, hoping to parlay herd immunity into abdication of personal and societal responsibility, ended up playing themselves?"[2] [1] I'm separating the legit medically immuno-compromised from voluntarily un-vaxxed. [2] I'm in Texas and was fully vaccinated as early as possible with two kids that can't be vaccinated yet and am currently watching a surge drown our local hospitals so I'm super fucking jaded.

walterbell 5y ago

Statistically most people, vaccinated or non-vaccinated, are not infected. Once infected, both vaccinated or non-vaccinated can transmit if there is sufficiently high viral load. Normally, a high viral load causes symptoms that would cause someone to self-isolate or fail a temperature check, reducing transmission. Because a vaccinated person can be infected without symptoms, there may be some cases where they should be isolating, but are not, and are thus transmitting to anyone, vaccinated or not. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210729/cdc-reverses-guidance-testing-fully-vaccinated-people https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210729/cdc-reverses-guidan... > Even if they’re not showing symptoms, fully vaccinated people should “get tested 3-5 days after exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19 and wear a mask in public indoor settings for 14 days after exposure or until they receive a negative test result,” the agency’s website says. The CDC previously said fully vaccinated people didn’t need testing after exposure unless they showed symptoms. “Our updated guidance recommends vaccinated people get tested upon exposure regardless of symptoms,” CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, MD, told The New York Times in an email. “Testing is widely available.” Stanford University will test all students, including those who are vaccinated, https://twitter.com/stanforddaily/status/1425554996683149313 https://twitter.com/stanforddaily/status/1425554996683149313 A subset of all populations globally, especially in young people, have already recovered from a Covid variant and have some natural immunity, which is sterilizing immunity (both upper respiratory system--since that is how they got naturally infected--and serum antibodies + T-cells). Governments have the option of performing national sero-surveys to statistically estimate the percentage who are already immune without a vaccine. Individuals who can afford to pay for testing can determine if they have natural immunity, including the newest FDA-EUA test for T-cells (costs $210 with blood draw, only in US for now), https://t-detect.com https://t-detect.com

fho 5y ago
Doesn't that also mean that vaccinated people somewhat benefit from being infected? Shouldn't they develop natural immunity from that?

rsynnott 5y ago

> Here in Europe we have Covid passports - if you are vaccinated or tested negative, you are allowed admission to, for example, shopping malls and no need to wear a mask indoors. That's a national policy thing; in Ireland, for instance, you can use the covid pass to go to a pub or restaurant, but if you're in an indoors public space you are still required to wear a mask. Same in France and Germany AIUI.