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SARS-CoV-2 Lambda variant exhibits higher infectivity and immune resistance
- giantg2 5y agoLeaky vaccines, like with delta, can lead to natural selection of 'hotter' variants. I think we will not see an end to this pandemic. It will continue to evolve and infect people. The thing that will change will be our perception of it.
- sschueller 5y agoUnvaccinated people have the virus longer and enable it to mutate more. Getting vaccinated will help irregardless if it is a "leaky" vaccine.
- eruleman 5y agoPlease keep talking points to a minimum, and stick to the science.
- renewiltord 5y agoWhat? That is the science.
- willmadden 5y agoThat's bullshit. It's leaky vaccines that trigger the same narrow immune response that are causing immune escape and hotter variants to emerge. What we're seeing is almost exactly like Marek's disease in chickens: https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/ https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathog... We shouldn't be forcing everyone to take a non-sterilizing vaccine. It's incredibly dangerous. Profitable for pharma companies and governments who take away our rights, though.
- zug_zug 5y agoInteresting premise. Though according to the article you cited it looks like the 3rd vaccine ultimately worked for the chickens.
- loopz 5y agoThe virus will mutate freely as soon as it spreads widely. There was never any chance of completely halting that. So vaccines are a response to otherwise unmitigated contagion at some later point in time. Also, the problem of "leaky" vaccines are of course not completely unadressed: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/countering-geert-vanden-bossches-dubious-viral-open-letter-warning-against-mass-covid-19-vaccination/ https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/countering-geert-vanden-bos... https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/addressing-geert-vanden-bossches-claims https://www.deplatformdisease.com/blog/addressing-geert-vand... https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/covid-19-vaccines-dont-hamper-the-function-of-the-immune-system-and-are-likely-to-limit-the-generation-of-variants-no-evidence-that-they-produce-more-lethal-variants/ https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/covid-19-vaccines-don... Most probably current vaccines will have to be updated, but evidence do not yet point towards this being a bigger problem.
- jasonlaramburu 5y agoYou either don’t understand the science or you deliberately misrepresent it. Non-sterilizing immunity (aka ‘leaky’ vaccines) has been shown to be effective at reducing virulence in Marek’s disease. This paper was published in 2020, 2 years after the article you cite: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-0358-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-0358-3
- giantg2 5y agoYour study and the parent's are looking at slightly different things. Essentially, the parent's study is saying that variant virulence has gone up over time, potentially related to leaky vaccine use. Your study is saying that leaky vaccine use can still be useful at reducing viral load and producing better outcomes than not vaccinating. These two different things can be true simultaneously.
- corona-research 5y agolol
- ipv6ipv4 5y agoThe Spanish flu passed after two years and four waves of varying lethality. No reason to lose all hope.
- johnchristopher 5y agoThat's what I was thinking and it was a ray of hope and maybe even the rational thing to expect. But we now have vaccines they had not. Is the loss of advantages (if they are) like different population density and spread, travel, nutrition, etc. compensated by our vaccines so that we can hope for the same ending ? I read a lot that covid-19 would turn into a milder flu as time passes by and as the virus naturally evolves to become more infectious but less lethal. But this is not what happened. I was confident until Delta happened and newspaper headlines started mentioning a fourth wave (most articles I read about Spanish flu only mentioned a third wave). Today, as far as I am concerned, all bets are off. I am vaccinated with what I consider the best option available at the time (mRNA, maybe protein based vaccine would have changed my mind) and the way things are now I'll keep wearing a mask indoor, at work, in public transport for a long time and follow all the other recommendations. And I am not in the US, I live in one of the less impacted (at the moment) European country.
- libertine 5y agoThere's too much mobility in the world, tourism is quite a vehicle for spread and too many countries went all in on tourism - I'm from Portugal, and clearly our government gave priority to tourism over public health, over and over again. Not because they wanted to, but because they had to - for economical and political reasons. Just like they stripped off all measures during Christmas for political goodwill, and it caused the death of thounsands. Very few were, and are, willing to end this pandemic. One thing was made very clear: politicians will do anything - ANYTHING - to keep themselves in power. This pandemic turned to the worst when it became a political weapon. They placed too much hope on the vaccine, when it should have been considered one valuable tool to end this pandemic, not the final fix for it. Only time will tell the long term effects of these decisions.
- loopz 5y ago
- hungryforcodes 5y ago> It will continue to evolve and infect people ..or whatever is going on.
- jasonlaramburu 5y agoThere’s no evidence of this. All covid variants of concern emerged before vaccines were widely available. Uncontrolled infection leads to variants, not vaccination.
- giantg2 5y agoLeaky vaccines are uncontrolled infection. Delta can be transmitted by vaccinated people. The point is, they will need to reformulate the vaccine to prevent this or it's fairly likely we will see further mutations. Given that there is immunity to the lesser strains, this leaves only one direction for those new strains to take - more virulence. So basically, there's a reduced chance of mutations that will prevail, but if one does occur, then it will likely be worse.
- jasonlaramburu 5y agoYou conveniently omit the fact that vaccinated people are much less likely to contract delta (and subsequently transmit it) than unvaccinated. Even legitimately ‘leaky’ vaccines have been shown to reduce virulence (not increase it) in other diseases: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-0358-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-020-0358-3 An aside, are you getting your information about vaccines from Joe Rogan? Unsurprisingly, the medical advice of a comedian is totally wrong: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2021/08/08/joe-rogan-is-getting-this-completely-wrong-says-the-scientist-who-conducted-the-vaccine-study/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorr...
- jjeaff 5y agoMost likely from Brett Weinstein and Heather Heying. Two biology professors that are now full time podcasters. This particular theory is being advanced by a guy who dubiously claims to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines because he was the middle author of a paper in the ballpark of mRNA about 25 years ago.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
- stalkersyndrome 5y agoNot sure what to make of stuff like this honestly: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking... But it’s interesting every time these variants pop up and they evade vaccines.
- hulitu 5y agoWhat happened to epsilon, zeta and eta variants ?
- tompccs 5y agoHeadline is misleading. The infectivity is comparable to Delta (within a standard deviation). From what I can tell, they only compares immune escape relative to the original wild type, not delta. I'm not an immunologist but the headline seems to me highly editorialised, and not supported by the paper. Would appreciate the input of someone qualified.
- SimeVidas 5y agoWhat does immune resistance mean?
- mellavora 5y agoYes, but does it run on AWS?
- hevalon 5y agoIt is called Managed for a reason..
- beebmam 5y agoThere have been massive conversations here about immunology and virology by confidence-men who have zero understanding of the human immune system. Even the most well educated medical scientists recognize there is a giant amount of uncertainty surrounding SARS-CoV-2, much of which confidence-men show up and attempt to resolve by lying, usually to advance some political/economic agenda. Have some respect for the scientific process and its pursuit of slowly unraveling the fog surrounding pristine knowledge. Grow comfortable with uncertainty and don't assume you have the answers. Be a little bit humble in the face of this virus that has caused so much suffering.
- aivisol 5y agoCannot agree more with you. Fingers crossed that "scientific process" is not influenced by political/economic agenda.
- willmadden 5y agoIt's a little late to cross your fingers. We're mandating vaccination with leaky vaccines that are forcing immune escape and creating more variants...
- prohobo 5y agoWhile this comment does make assertions that are still questionable, I think the spirit of it rings true. The scientific process has already been subverted for political gain. It's natural for people to distrust governments and committees which have proven themselves untrustworthy - and to come up with their own explanations for what's happening, whether accurate or not. The funny thing about combatting "misinformation" is that it requires that you either dissolve democratic processes and implement totalitarian measures, or you simply regain the trust of the people. We all know which option was chosen.
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago>or you simply regain the trust of the people. The tricky thing is that it’s not only political. People can also get rich and famous by peddling misinformation online. Rather than suppress information, we need to dismantle the incentive structure that rewards people for spreading lies.
- nsizx 5y agoThis is starting to bore the hell out of me. If we will never see the end of this then it's time to get back the freedoms they have taken from us.
- corona-research 5y agoLooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool! Hypochondria alert!