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Why would you assume that? Electrochemical compressors, as well as high pressure vessels, are rapidly declining in cost. Fuel station grade electrochemical comp

Why would you assume that? Electrochemical compressors, as well as high pressure vessels, are rapidly declining in cost. Fuel station grade electrochemical compressors were ~$1M ten years ago, $300k five years ago, and about $150k today.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago
Compare that to hooking up to a grid, costwise. All the H2 equipment is 20x more I'd guess than a charging station for an EV. All the other H2 issues aside, you're competing with a good, established logistic network in EVs: the grid. H2 is like any new nuke: you're 10 years out with a ton of subsidy and investment from being a player against the EVs of TODAY. Your price targets to compete will have to anticipate 5-10 years of accumulated economies of scale, tech improvements, etc in EV/grid/alternative energy/storage. I'd be shocked if a bank would float capital to support that given the uncertainty. Just like I'd be shocked if a bank would float financing to a new major fossil fuel development. It might be BANNED in under a decade.
- darksaints 5y ago
  You can't just "use the grid"...existing grid connections can't handle the load. You have to have high voltage lines run direct. Just the equipment to receive and distribute a high voltage connection, you're talking ~$150k. Then another $60k per charger. And before you can even consider installing anything, you have to have lines run specifically for your station, which can often be several miles. That's definitely not cheap. So no...hydrogen infrastructure is not 20x more. It's probably slightly more expensive than an urban charging station, but significantly cheaper than a rural charging station. And remember: electrical infrastructure is mature...it's not going to get significantly cheaper any time soon. Batteries are the innovation driving EV growth, not the grid. The only thing that is unambiguously more expensive is the fuel. And it always will be more expensive...but prices are going down constantly. If it costs $100 to drive a truck across the US, why would it matter if it costs $200 to do the same with hydrogen, especially if it means not having to stop for hours at a time to recharge?
  - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
    You might be right about the grid enhancement, but the rural stations will generally be served by alternative energy that can only be placed in ... rural areas. The midwest of the US is generally wind-rich. The south and southeast will be solar-rich.

AtlasBarfed 5y ago

Compare that to hooking up to a grid, costwise. All the H2 equipment is 20x more I'd guess than a charging station for an EV. All the other H2 issues aside, you're competing with a good, established logistic network in EVs: the grid. H2 is like any new nuke: you're 10 years out with a ton of subsidy and investment from being a player against the EVs of TODAY. Your price targets to compete will have to anticipate 5-10 years of accumulated economies of scale, tech improvements, etc in EV/grid/alternative energy/storage. I'd be shocked if a bank would float capital to support that given the uncertainty. Just like I'd be shocked if a bank would float financing to a new major fossil fuel development. It might be BANNED in under a decade.

darksaints 5y ago
You can't just "use the grid"...existing grid connections can't handle the load. You have to have high voltage lines run direct. Just the equipment to receive and distribute a high voltage connection, you're talking ~$150k. Then another $60k per charger. And before you can even consider installing anything, you have to have lines run specifically for your station, which can often be several miles. That's definitely not cheap. So no...hydrogen infrastructure is not 20x more. It's probably slightly more expensive than an urban charging station, but significantly cheaper than a rural charging station. And remember: electrical infrastructure is mature...it's not going to get significantly cheaper any time soon. Batteries are the innovation driving EV growth, not the grid. The only thing that is unambiguously more expensive is the fuel. And it always will be more expensive...but prices are going down constantly. If it costs $100 to drive a truck across the US, why would it matter if it costs $200 to do the same with hydrogen, especially if it means not having to stop for hours at a time to recharge?
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  You might be right about the grid enhancement, but the rural stations will generally be served by alternative energy that can only be placed in ... rural areas. The midwest of the US is generally wind-rich. The south and southeast will be solar-rich.