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There's nothing to argue. I'm incredibly disappointed in Apple and feel betrayed. I went all-in with the Apple ecosystem because I stupidly and naively believed

There's nothing to argue. I'm incredibly disappointed in Apple and feel betrayed. I went all-in with the Apple ecosystem because I stupidly and naively believed their commitment to privacy.

stetrain 5y ago
You don’t seem to have read what Apple has said on the issue so that feels a bit extreme. And for the record I’m not for this, but my concerns are more about what various governments may start mandating as this capability becomes an option. If you want on-device and cloud backup of data that isn’t checked for illegal content, I think that change needs to happen at the legislature not the phone store.
- farmerstan 5y ago
  I’m telling you what is going to happen in the future. What they write today is meaningless. In 2016 they fought the fbi in terms of unencrypting data. Then they decided to not encrypt iCloud backups. They didn’t mention in 2016 they wouldn’t encrypt iCloud backups just like they won’t say today that they won’t bend to the Chinese government tweaking their algorithm or their hash list in a few yearsnn
  - stetrain 5y ago
    The only logical reason for Apple to implement such a complex system is to give them a defensive political tool to allow them to do things like encrypt iCloud backups and photos. “But CSAM” is a common political tool used against such encryption. I don’t see this move from Apple making any measurable difference in how well a government can scan your device for arbitrary data. If it happens it was going to happen anyway, your prediction of the future comes true with or without CSAM scanning, if you are allowing for new government orders and legislation.
    - nieve 5y ago
      The difference is that Apple has built the infrastructure for _global_, continuous image scanning. No need to hack individual phones or know who your targets are, all you have to do is get some images added to list. If you think the Chinese (or most likely American) government wouldn't love to be able to find out everyone who had copies of certain images, say from protests or inside camps, you're far too optimistic. This is Apple creating a mechanism for worldwide surveillance and declaring they'd never compromise because they're good people who we can trust. Note that they're not making any actual promises that might land them in court if the system is abuses, they're just repeating that they're good people who'd never cooperate with authoritarian regimes.
      - stetrain 5y ago
        All you have to do is: - Get your image added to the list - Order Apple to scan all images not just ones being uploaded to iCloud - Order Apple to change the reporting threshold or remove the safety voucher system unless you only care about users with many matching images - Compromise or order Apple to skip the human review and pass the reports directly to your government agency Really you have to compromise or order Apple to change every step in the pipeline except “compare images to hashes” which is the part an intern could do in a weekend. I’m sure governments would love to know which users have “undesirable” images on their device. I’m just saying instead of doing the above steps to take advantage of the CSAM system, they could just order Apple to scan for the images they want scanned for. Apple’s choice is the same, comply or risk participation in that market.

There's nothing to argue. I'm incredibly disappointed in Apple and feel betrayed. I went all-in with the Apple ecosystem because I stupidly and naively believed their commitment to privacy.

stetrain 5y ago

You don’t seem to have read what Apple has said on the issue so that feels a bit extreme. And for the record I’m not for this, but my concerns are more about what various governments may start mandating as this capability becomes an option. If you want on-device and cloud backup of data that isn’t checked for illegal content, I think that change needs to happen at the legislature not the phone store.

farmerstan 5y ago
I’m telling you what is going to happen in the future. What they write today is meaningless. In 2016 they fought the fbi in terms of unencrypting data. Then they decided to not encrypt iCloud backups. They didn’t mention in 2016 they wouldn’t encrypt iCloud backups just like they won’t say today that they won’t bend to the Chinese government tweaking their algorithm or their hash list in a few yearsnn
- stetrain 5y ago
  The only logical reason for Apple to implement such a complex system is to give them a defensive political tool to allow them to do things like encrypt iCloud backups and photos. “But CSAM” is a common political tool used against such encryption. I don’t see this move from Apple making any measurable difference in how well a government can scan your device for arbitrary data. If it happens it was going to happen anyway, your prediction of the future comes true with or without CSAM scanning, if you are allowing for new government orders and legislation.
  - nieve 5y ago
    The difference is that Apple has built the infrastructure for _global_, continuous image scanning. No need to hack individual phones or know who your targets are, all you have to do is get some images added to list. If you think the Chinese (or most likely American) government wouldn't love to be able to find out everyone who had copies of certain images, say from protests or inside camps, you're far too optimistic. This is Apple creating a mechanism for worldwide surveillance and declaring they'd never compromise because they're good people who we can trust. Note that they're not making any actual promises that might land them in court if the system is abuses, they're just repeating that they're good people who'd never cooperate with authoritarian regimes.
    - stetrain 5y ago
      All you have to do is: - Get your image added to the list - Order Apple to scan all images not just ones being uploaded to iCloud - Order Apple to change the reporting threshold or remove the safety voucher system unless you only care about users with many matching images - Compromise or order Apple to skip the human review and pass the reports directly to your government agency Really you have to compromise or order Apple to change every step in the pipeline except “compare images to hashes” which is the part an intern could do in a weekend. I’m sure governments would love to know which users have “undesirable” images on their device. I’m just saying instead of doing the above steps to take advantage of the CSAM system, they could just order Apple to scan for the images they want scanned for. Apple’s choice is the same, comply or risk participation in that market.