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Yes, if they wind up part of a child porn investigation. Your cloud account gets hacked. Some perv gets your images. He is then arrested and his "collection"

Yes, if they wind up part of a child porn investigation. Your cloud account gets hacked. Some perv gets your images. He is then arrested and his "collection" added to the hash database... including your family photos. Context often matters more than the nature of the actual content. Police aquire thousands of images with little hope of ever knowing where they originated. If they are collected by pervs, and could be construed as illegal in the hands of pervs, the images become child porn and can be added to the databases.

snowwrestler 5y ago
It’s worth pointing out that this could happen with any Internet-attached photo storage, and pre-dates Apple’s announcement. What Apple announced is a new system for reading the existing hash lists of known CSAM images and doing the comparison on the device as part of the iCloud upload, rather than on the server after upload.
nicce 5y ago
Actually, we don’t know yet whether you can access your photos from the web anymore after this update, because E2EE ”like” implementation. Protocol is rather device specific (while allowing multi-device), so it might not be enough to access or hack iCloud account to access the photos. So, things get complicated.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  > because E2EE ”like” implementation. Did apple actually say photos would be e2ee or are we just assuming?
  - nicce 5y ago
    Did you read the spec? This is why the scanning happens on the device.
    - vineyardmike 5y ago
      I don't recall them explicitly saying anything was e2ee except imeessage which is not relevant for this discussion.
      - nicce 5y ago
        Just read the techical paper. [1] [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...
cucumb3rrelish 5y ago
if your cloud account gets hacked you have other things to worry about than someone stealing your child's photos (which for whatever reason are explicit enough for apple to report the detections to authorities), spreading them on a honeypot forum and you ending up in court where the judge doesn't believe that the minor on the image is your child
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > judge doesn't believe that the minor on the image is your child Parents can produce, distribute and sell CSAM of their own kids. That's one of the implications they'd face in court.
simondotau 5y ago
> your family photos ... could be construed as illegal in the hands of pervs, the images become child porn and can be added to the databases. It's not as simple as that. Photos in the NCMEC database are tagged based on the severity of their content. The categories are A1, A2, B1, B2. According to this[0] PowerPoint presentation, page 22: A = prepubescent minor B = pubescent minor 1 = sex act 2 = "lascivious exhibition" Apple are only searching for images tagged as "A1" by NCMEC and other agencies. This is the most extreme of the extreme. There is a massive gulf between the A1 category and anything you could even remotely conceive of being in anyone's family photos. [0] https://www.prosecutingattorneys.org/wp-content/uploads/Presentation-Slides2.pdf https://www.prosecutingattorneys.org/wp-content/uploads/Pres...
- sandworm101 5y ago
  A1 is nowhere near the most extreme material with which police must deal. Not even close. This is called child abuse imagery for a reason. Sex acts are literally the entry level for A1.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    "Sex act" is specifically what the "1" in A1 refers to. A1 does not cover images of child abuse unless they involve sex acts. Yes, even if these are "more extreme" in other ways. The definitions are horrifyingly, depressingly, tragically very clear.

snowwrestler 5y ago

It’s worth pointing out that this could happen with any Internet-attached photo storage, and pre-dates Apple’s announcement. What Apple announced is a new system for reading the existing hash lists of known CSAM images and doing the comparison on the device as part of the iCloud upload, rather than on the server after upload.

nicce 5y ago

Actually, we don’t know yet whether you can access your photos from the web anymore after this update, because E2EE ”like” implementation. Protocol is rather device specific (while allowing multi-device), so it might not be enough to access or hack iCloud account to access the photos. So, things get complicated.

vineyardmike 5y ago
> because E2EE ”like” implementation. Did apple actually say photos would be e2ee or are we just assuming?
- nicce 5y ago
  Did you read the spec? This is why the scanning happens on the device.
  - vineyardmike 5y ago
    I don't recall them explicitly saying anything was e2ee except imeessage which is not relevant for this discussion.
    - nicce 5y ago
      Just read the techical paper. [1] [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

cucumb3rrelish 5y ago

if your cloud account gets hacked you have other things to worry about than someone stealing your child's photos (which for whatever reason are explicit enough for apple to report the detections to authorities), spreading them on a honeypot forum and you ending up in court where the judge doesn't believe that the minor on the image is your child

heavyset_go 5y ago
> judge doesn't believe that the minor on the image is your child Parents can produce, distribute and sell CSAM of their own kids. That's one of the implications they'd face in court.

simondotau 5y ago

> your family photos ... could be construed as illegal in the hands of pervs, the images become child porn and can be added to the databases. It's not as simple as that. Photos in the NCMEC database are tagged based on the severity of their content. The categories are A1, A2, B1, B2. According to this[0] PowerPoint presentation, page 22: A = prepubescent minor B = pubescent minor 1 = sex act 2 = "lascivious exhibition" Apple are only searching for images tagged as "A1" by NCMEC and other agencies. This is the most extreme of the extreme. There is a massive gulf between the A1 category and anything you could even remotely conceive of being in anyone's family photos. [0] https://www.prosecutingattorneys.org/wp-content/uploads/Presentation-Slides2.pdf https://www.prosecutingattorneys.org/wp-content/uploads/Pres...

sandworm101 5y ago
A1 is nowhere near the most extreme material with which police must deal. Not even close. This is called child abuse imagery for a reason. Sex acts are literally the entry level for A1.
- simondotau 5y ago
  "Sex act" is specifically what the "1" in A1 refers to. A1 does not cover images of child abuse unless they involve sex acts. Yes, even if these are "more extreme" in other ways. The definitions are horrifyingly, depressingly, tragically very clear.