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If Johnny/Jane didn't want their contributions to be used like that they could have licensed them differently though, or contributed to gcc instead. Of course l

by Thiez 5y ago

If Johnny/Jane didn't want their contributions to be used like that they could have licensed them differently though, or contributed to gcc instead. Of course llvm wouldn't accept their contributions if they were licensed under, say, the AGPL. But presumably getting their changes upstreamed is not a condition for completing their thesis, so it's their choice. As a PHD student they are hopefully capable of reading and understanding these licenses (to the degree that someone who hasn't studied law can understand such things).

pjmlp 5y ago
True, except in this fictional story maybe the condition was set by the professor, university department and not a free option of the respective student that now sees his work being abused by a mega corp too cheap to contribute back.
- Thiez 5y ago
  Sure, in that very specific and somewhat unlikely scenario. Maybe the professor demanded a handjob as well. Or perhaps the university claims ownership over all intellectual property produced by the PhD student as part of their thesis, and they're unable to upstream their source to any project under any license. In any case, it sounds like you want to blame the llvm license for the bad feelings the student might have, but that blame is misdirected: the student should aim their anger (if any) at their professor or university for introducing unreasonable requirements. Or maybe they should suck it up because without llvm they would have had to pick another subject for their thesis. I suspect that llvm wouldn't have grown to where it is now (for better or for worse) with a copyleft license. And then our student would have been "forced" to contribute to gcc instead, and sign over their copyright to the fsf instead. Finally I think the academic world is a lot like permissive licenses already. Anyone can read papers, use that information in any way, and there is no obligation to contribute back. Only when writing new papers are you expected to acknowledge your sources.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Nice way to pick the example instead of the actual reason why Intel and others are replacing their C and C++ compilers with clang. How are those PlayStation 5 optimisations working out? Guess which compiler is currently lagging in ISO C++ 20 support.

by Thiez 5y ago

pjmlp 5y ago

True, except in this fictional story maybe the condition was set by the professor, university department and not a free option of the respective student that now sees his work being abused by a mega corp too cheap to contribute back.

Thiez 5y ago
Sure, in that very specific and somewhat unlikely scenario. Maybe the professor demanded a handjob as well. Or perhaps the university claims ownership over all intellectual property produced by the PhD student as part of their thesis, and they're unable to upstream their source to any project under any license. In any case, it sounds like you want to blame the llvm license for the bad feelings the student might have, but that blame is misdirected: the student should aim their anger (if any) at their professor or university for introducing unreasonable requirements. Or maybe they should suck it up because without llvm they would have had to pick another subject for their thesis. I suspect that llvm wouldn't have grown to where it is now (for better or for worse) with a copyleft license. And then our student would have been "forced" to contribute to gcc instead, and sign over their copyright to the fsf instead. Finally I think the academic world is a lot like permissive licenses already. Anyone can read papers, use that information in any way, and there is no obligation to contribute back. Only when writing new papers are you expected to acknowledge your sources.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Nice way to pick the example instead of the actual reason why Intel and others are replacing their C and C++ compilers with clang. How are those PlayStation 5 optimisations working out? Guess which compiler is currently lagging in ISO C++ 20 support.