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What is the purpose of having a company's demographics represent the country? What if certain ethnic groups focus more on sports, or biology, or being lawyers

What is the purpose of having a company's demographics represent the country? What if certain ethnic groups focus more on sports, or biology, or being lawyers or doctors, or they skip the whole college ripoff and go to a trade school. Do they still need equal representation in tech? Do we just want equally smart people, or do we want people who also are motivated to work on tech, due to their cultural values? What about the individuals themselves? What if we ignore the color of their skin for a moment and try to find diversity in peoples' experiences, backgrounds etc. I feel these anti-racism movements do more to further cement race as an important component of identity into peoples' minds than anything else these days.

mattzito 5y ago
No one is arguing that demographics have to match the country, at least not anyone serious. No one is forcing certain ethnic groups to apply to tech jobs - but if you have a group of people who are telling you that they would like these jobs, and there are structural disadvantages in place that make it more challenging for those people to get those jobs - why wouldn't you try to make things more equitable?
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  I don't see any evidence that any actual otherwise-qualified people are saying they would like these jobs but are unable to get them due to any hurdles at all - I do see advocacy groups insisting that percentages themselves are evidence that there must be such people, but aren't able to produce any examples.
  - mattzito 5y ago
    I mean, there's a lot of examples, like this: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-howard-university-coders/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-howard-university-co... and this: https://medium.com/@racheltho/how-to-make-tech-interviews-a-little-less-awful-c29f35431987 https://medium.com/@racheltho/how-to-make-tech-interviews-a-... > Triplebyte’s key advice for job seekers is to read the bios of founders and apply to companies where the CTO shares your background. Since only 3% of VC funding goes to women and less than 1% goes to Black founders, this advice will be hard to follow for applicants from underrepresented groups or with non-traditional backgrounds. Or this: https://archive.is/zA7lV https://archive.is/zA7lV or this: https://www.fullstackacademy.com/blog/coding-while-black https://www.fullstackacademy.com/blog/coding-while-black There's lots of stories about challenges in getting those jobs, and then getting paid less to do those jobs, and then feeling unwelcome. Why is it so hard to believe that it's simply harder to get a job if you're a qualified minority? How does it lessen you to acknowledge that there are systemic problems?
alistairSH 5y ago
What is the purpose of having a company's demographics represent the country? The value to society, if done well, is ensuring everybody has a roughly equal chance to succeed across careers/jobs/industries. The company itself possibly gets value from ensuring new candidates see others like them working there. They might get value from being able to show broader society that they are being fair. Regardless, it's up to the BoD, shareholders, and C-suite to decide what value is created and act accordingly. Apparently some tech companies see value in building a diverse workforce. What if certain ethnic groups focus more on sports, or biology, or being lawyers or doctors, or they skip the whole college ripoff and go to a trade school. Do they still need equal representation in tech? The burden is on people who want to maintain the current, non-representative state to prove nobody from other demographics wants into the field. Failing that, we should be trying to discover why some groups are underrepresented. And I just don't buy the argument that blacks prefer to play basketball and women prefer to teach, or whatever else it is your implying.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  > Apparently some tech companies see value in building a diverse workforce. And that's great, but diversity extends beyond ethnicity. If the only people your company hires are Ivy League 3rd culture kids, it doesn't matter what race they are. You are missing out on the majority of the benefits of diversity. > The burden is on people who want to maintain the current, non-representative state to prove nobody from other demographics wants into the field. No it isn't, and the fact that you're asking people to prove a negative should be a giant red flag that your views are unreasonable. > And I just don't buy the argument that blacks prefer to play basketball and women prefer to teach, or whatever else it is your implying. Please don't put words in my mouth, the fact that these examples are what you thought of speaks volumes about the depth of understanding you have here. White people actually focus a lot on sports compared to Asian, for example. East Asians focus more on being doctors than Indians, relative to engineering, as another. Moreover, that you are saying that all people from all backgrounds should find tech equally attractive tells me that you've fundamentally misunderstood the concept of cultural diversity. The fact that we have imbalances shows that we value diversity, because we let individuals choose as they wish, and as their cultures guide them. Having equal representation actually means a homogeneous society, not a diverse society.

mattzito 5y ago

No one is arguing that demographics have to match the country, at least not anyone serious. No one is forcing certain ethnic groups to apply to tech jobs - but if you have a group of people who are telling you that they would like these jobs, and there are structural disadvantages in place that make it more challenging for those people to get those jobs - why wouldn't you try to make things more equitable?

commandlinefan 5y ago
I don't see any evidence that any actual otherwise-qualified people are saying they would like these jobs but are unable to get them due to any hurdles at all - I do see advocacy groups insisting that percentages themselves are evidence that there must be such people, but aren't able to produce any examples.
- mattzito 5y ago
  I mean, there's a lot of examples, like this: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-howard-university-coders/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-howard-university-co... and this: https://medium.com/@racheltho/how-to-make-tech-interviews-a-little-less-awful-c29f35431987 https://medium.com/@racheltho/how-to-make-tech-interviews-a-... > Triplebyte’s key advice for job seekers is to read the bios of founders and apply to companies where the CTO shares your background. Since only 3% of VC funding goes to women and less than 1% goes to Black founders, this advice will be hard to follow for applicants from underrepresented groups or with non-traditional backgrounds. Or this: https://archive.is/zA7lV https://archive.is/zA7lV or this: https://www.fullstackacademy.com/blog/coding-while-black https://www.fullstackacademy.com/blog/coding-while-black There's lots of stories about challenges in getting those jobs, and then getting paid less to do those jobs, and then feeling unwelcome. Why is it so hard to believe that it's simply harder to get a job if you're a qualified minority? How does it lessen you to acknowledge that there are systemic problems?

alistairSH 5y ago

What is the purpose of having a company's demographics represent the country? The value to society, if done well, is ensuring everybody has a roughly equal chance to succeed across careers/jobs/industries. The company itself possibly gets value from ensuring new candidates see others like them working there. They might get value from being able to show broader society that they are being fair. Regardless, it's up to the BoD, shareholders, and C-suite to decide what value is created and act accordingly. Apparently some tech companies see value in building a diverse workforce. What if certain ethnic groups focus more on sports, or biology, or being lawyers or doctors, or they skip the whole college ripoff and go to a trade school. Do they still need equal representation in tech? The burden is on people who want to maintain the current, non-representative state to prove nobody from other demographics wants into the field. Failing that, we should be trying to discover why some groups are underrepresented. And I just don't buy the argument that blacks prefer to play basketball and women prefer to teach, or whatever else it is your implying.

snovv_crash 5y ago
> Apparently some tech companies see value in building a diverse workforce. And that's great, but diversity extends beyond ethnicity. If the only people your company hires are Ivy League 3rd culture kids, it doesn't matter what race they are. You are missing out on the majority of the benefits of diversity. > The burden is on people who want to maintain the current, non-representative state to prove nobody from other demographics wants into the field. No it isn't, and the fact that you're asking people to prove a negative should be a giant red flag that your views are unreasonable. > And I just don't buy the argument that blacks prefer to play basketball and women prefer to teach, or whatever else it is your implying. Please don't put words in my mouth, the fact that these examples are what you thought of speaks volumes about the depth of understanding you have here. White people actually focus a lot on sports compared to Asian, for example. East Asians focus more on being doctors than Indians, relative to engineering, as another. Moreover, that you are saying that all people from all backgrounds should find tech equally attractive tells me that you've fundamentally misunderstood the concept of cultural diversity. The fact that we have imbalances shows that we value diversity, because we let individuals choose as they wish, and as their cultures guide them. Having equal representation actually means a homogeneous society, not a diverse society.