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I am unsympathetic to the reaction of Swiss banking officials who are apparently deeply emotionally affected by the imposition to report on the financial assets

I am unsympathetic to the reaction of Swiss banking officials who are apparently deeply emotionally affected by the imposition to report on the financial assets of wealthy people with financial interests in the US. Switzerland's history of providing financial services to the very worst people in the world is not much of a bush to hide behind.

kurthr 5y ago
It's not just Switzerland. France also makes it so difficult to hold an account that it's not worth it. It's understandable since the paperwork they have to do is also enormous for the small profit they would make.
- Tsarbomb 5y ago
  The only country where it is actually fairly simple is Canada, because Canadian banks already have the infrastructure to automatically tattle on you to Uncle Sam and the IRS.
  - wiredfool 5y ago
    It wasn’t hard in Ireland when I got bank accounts here a few years back.
vmception 5y ago
okay, then just replace Switzerland with a country you respect then and its the same deal
- fearfulofview4 5y ago
  Indeed. FATCA is an extreme annoyance and makes Americans persona non grata in a lot of countries. Try getting a bank account or opening a mortgage as an American permanently abroad or an accidental one. (I wish beyond FATCA that taxation on Americans domiciled outside of the country would be ended. Such a waste, and I say this as someone who supports taxation for public goods.)
  - triceratops 5y ago
    Taxation on Americans living abroad is crazy, when you consider that American companies aren't taxed on their foreign profits.
    - 8note 5y ago
      They are taxed on bringing that money into the US though, and the owners of it are taxed once the money moves to individuals
      - triceratops 5y ago
        > They are taxed on bringing that money into the US though Which they (almost) never have to do. If they need cash in America, they take out super-low-interest loans. > the owners of it are taxed once the money moves to individuals Again, that's technically true but only poor schnooks who keep their money in Vanguard index funds are paying those taxes. The wealthy have more sophisticated tax strategies.
leereeves 5y ago
These requirements apply to all American citizens, not only wealthy people. I lived in Switzerland briefly and had a bank account there; it was closed (along with all other Americans' accounts) because the bank didn't want the burden of reporting. As gutitout said, "the US goes so far that foreign banks would rather not deal with you at all." And the worst burden of that falls on average citizens living abroad, not on the wealthy who just move their money to a different haven.
- eevilspock 5y ago
  Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I have a close friend who moved back to Taiwan from the US and many banks have told her exactly this. She want to renounce her US citizenship because it is making life hard for her. (Note: I am pro all the reporting requirements. But the parent comment is factually true.)
- izacus 5y ago
  > These requirements apply to all American citizens, not only wealthy people. I lived in Switzerland briefly and had a bank account there; it was closed (along with all other Americans' accounts) because the bank didn't want the burden of reporting. Yup, can confirm - a large majority of smaller banks will not open a bank account for US citizens in Switzerland. The few larger ones will, but there's extra paperwork you need to fill out.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wil421 5y ago
  I have doubts about your statement that all Americans accounts were closed. The US State department says otherwise and provides links and resources. https://ch.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/living-in-ch/banking-resources/ https://ch.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resource...
  - leereeves 5y ago
    Sorry about the confusion. I meant all Americans' accounts with that bank, not all Americans' accounts in the entire country. That link also confirms what I said: it clearly says the reporting requirements apply to all "U.S. citizens and residents with...any foreign financial accounts", and it provides a list of some banks that still accept American account holders because many do not.
8note 5y ago
I'd be less sympathetic if the US enforced international law, and wasn't just bullied smaller countries to do what it wants. Eg. GDPR
- joecool1029 5y ago
  GDPR is a regional law, there's no international treaties that compel any non-European entity to follow it. I don't know why most Europeans have a hard time understanding this. Similar law exists in the US in California, with the difference being that it's possible for a federal court out there to claim jurisdiction if I, as a non-Californian but American resident citizen, do business with Californian customers.

kurthr 5y ago

It's not just Switzerland. France also makes it so difficult to hold an account that it's not worth it. It's understandable since the paperwork they have to do is also enormous for the small profit they would make.

Tsarbomb 5y ago
The only country where it is actually fairly simple is Canada, because Canadian banks already have the infrastructure to automatically tattle on you to Uncle Sam and the IRS.
- wiredfool 5y ago
  It wasn’t hard in Ireland when I got bank accounts here a few years back.

vmception 5y ago

okay, then just replace Switzerland with a country you respect then and its the same deal

fearfulofview4 5y ago
Indeed. FATCA is an extreme annoyance and makes Americans persona non grata in a lot of countries. Try getting a bank account or opening a mortgage as an American permanently abroad or an accidental one. (I wish beyond FATCA that taxation on Americans domiciled outside of the country would be ended. Such a waste, and I say this as someone who supports taxation for public goods.)
- triceratops 5y ago
  Taxation on Americans living abroad is crazy, when you consider that American companies aren't taxed on their foreign profits.
  - 8note 5y ago
    They are taxed on bringing that money into the US though, and the owners of it are taxed once the money moves to individuals
    - triceratops 5y ago
      > They are taxed on bringing that money into the US though Which they (almost) never have to do. If they need cash in America, they take out super-low-interest loans. > the owners of it are taxed once the money moves to individuals Again, that's technically true but only poor schnooks who keep their money in Vanguard index funds are paying those taxes. The wealthy have more sophisticated tax strategies.

leereeves 5y ago

These requirements apply to all American citizens, not only wealthy people. I lived in Switzerland briefly and had a bank account there; it was closed (along with all other Americans' accounts) because the bank didn't want the burden of reporting. As gutitout said, "the US goes so far that foreign banks would rather not deal with you at all." And the worst burden of that falls on average citizens living abroad, not on the wealthy who just move their money to a different haven.

eevilspock 5y ago
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I have a close friend who moved back to Taiwan from the US and many banks have told her exactly this. She want to renounce her US citizenship because it is making life hard for her. (Note: I am pro all the reporting requirements. But the parent comment is factually true.)
izacus 5y ago
> These requirements apply to all American citizens, not only wealthy people. I lived in Switzerland briefly and had a bank account there; it was closed (along with all other Americans' accounts) because the bank didn't want the burden of reporting. Yup, can confirm - a large majority of smaller banks will not open a bank account for US citizens in Switzerland. The few larger ones will, but there's extra paperwork you need to fill out.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
wil421 5y ago
I have doubts about your statement that all Americans accounts were closed. The US State department says otherwise and provides links and resources. https://ch.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/living-in-ch/banking-resources/ https://ch.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resource...
- leereeves 5y ago
  Sorry about the confusion. I meant all Americans' accounts with that bank, not all Americans' accounts in the entire country. That link also confirms what I said: it clearly says the reporting requirements apply to all "U.S. citizens and residents with...any foreign financial accounts", and it provides a list of some banks that still accept American account holders because many do not.

8note 5y ago

I'd be less sympathetic if the US enforced international law, and wasn't just bullied smaller countries to do what it wants. Eg. GDPR

joecool1029 5y ago
GDPR is a regional law, there's no international treaties that compel any non-European entity to follow it. I don't know why most Europeans have a hard time understanding this. Similar law exists in the US in California, with the difference being that it's possible for a federal court out there to claim jurisdiction if I, as a non-Californian but American resident citizen, do business with Californian customers.