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> They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location t

> They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location they are in. I mean, there's a lot of alcoholism problems and drug issues too. >People incorporate that knowledge, and let their kids know that those jobs are not worth investing in. I'm not sure the wisdom of the crowds is a great example here. How many kids are in many thousands of debt and working at dead end jobs or as a barista, etc. because they got a useless degree from a third rate university? > How many factory towns are there where the factory closes or downsizes and the whole town goes into economic decline? You need to pay a lot to offset that kind of risk. I don't think I'm describing factory town style jobs of yesteryear. There are many solid jobs in tool and die, machining, etc that are mainly run by small to mid-sized shops. Literally thousands of these around the country. There are a lot of people making a great living in these places, it's just that there's a shortage of qualified labor. Similar to software companies - there's a shortage of labor and it isn't because they aren't paying enough. Additionally, a lot of people think this kind of work is below them because they went to a university to study a field that they can't make it in. > The other proof is also that I bet they can get lots of qualified applicants that will “show up everyday and work”. Just offer $200k per year. Or $500k per year. Obviously the purchasers of that type of labor are not offering enough money. Yeah probably but I'm not sure that's economic. Also, the starting pay won't be the best but you rise fairly quickly through the ranks where the money improves. But like I said before, there are a lot of people making a good life for themselves with a home, a family, vacations, and a solid American life in these places. This life exists for people. But you would think it isn't even available - but it is. Kids complain that they are 50k in debt from school, can't find a job that pays well and will never be able to afford a home or have kids. But that's not true. There's a career out there in modern manufacturing if they are willing to humble themselves.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
> Additionally, a lot of people think this kind of work is below them because they went to a university to study a field that they can't make it in. People think it is "below them" because they saw the people who went into white collar professions in their parents' generation come out ahead. Pay enough (and advertise the pay) and people's perception will change. >But you would think it isn't even available - but it is. Where are the job postings showing the pay and benefits? Why do the stats indicate the wages not increasing much? >There's a career out there in modern manufacturing if they are willing to humble themselves. The situation might have changed recently, but those jobs have definitely not paid sufficiently for the past few decades to make it a worthwhile investment. This is shown by definition, since they are complaining about lack of candidates for the job positions. If they paid appropriately and competitively, by definition people would have opted to work those jobs.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  I’m not sure and maybe the type of work I’m describing isn’t traditional manufacturing. Machining and welding for instance are skilled trades but a big part of modern manufacturing. Tool and dye press setup is another and one of many entry paths. We hear the same things in other non-manufacturing trades though like plumbing and carpentry and HVAC, etc. companies struggle to find reliable people when the money is good and prospects are stable. One contractor I had was a Ukrainian man with a math degree but went into tile work when he moved here because he found he could make more money doing it. Smart man in our conversations and humble but is massively in-demand in the general area because he’s so good at it and he’s paid like it.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

> Additionally, a lot of people think this kind of work is below them because they went to a university to study a field that they can't make it in. People think it is "below them" because they saw the people who went into white collar professions in their parents' generation come out ahead. Pay enough (and advertise the pay) and people's perception will change. >But you would think it isn't even available - but it is. Where are the job postings showing the pay and benefits? Why do the stats indicate the wages not increasing much? >There's a career out there in modern manufacturing if they are willing to humble themselves. The situation might have changed recently, but those jobs have definitely not paid sufficiently for the past few decades to make it a worthwhile investment. This is shown by definition, since they are complaining about lack of candidates for the job positions. If they paid appropriately and competitively, by definition people would have opted to work those jobs.

nemo44x 5y ago
I’m not sure and maybe the type of work I’m describing isn’t traditional manufacturing. Machining and welding for instance are skilled trades but a big part of modern manufacturing. Tool and dye press setup is another and one of many entry paths. We hear the same things in other non-manufacturing trades though like plumbing and carpentry and HVAC, etc. companies struggle to find reliable people when the money is good and prospects are stable. One contractor I had was a Ukrainian man with a math degree but went into tile work when he moved here because he found he could make more money doing it. Smart man in our conversations and humble but is massively in-demand in the general area because he’s so good at it and he’s paid like it.