7 ms·

Don't buy it

by gameswithgo 5y ago

Don't buy it

edrxty 5y ago
That's becoming less of an option by the day and will only accelerate if Apple gets their way.
- alttab 5y ago
  Literally just get an Android phone.
  - fredsir 5y ago
    If you think it's not spreading to Android phones, you are naive. Apple set the precedent, now it's gonna come to every mainstream device. The only option is to abandon ship.
    - cmurf 5y ago
      For a split second I lamented the demise of Windows Phone. But they too would just follow. But I do lament the end of Firefox OS.
  - edrxty 5y ago
    Sure, now find me a new car that doesn't have the ability to do OTA updates
    - alttab 5y ago
      Assuming the marketplace is functioning, the demand for these sort of "features" (aka: non-features) would assume there would be a rational supplier to give it. The next step in that debate is "yeah but the big monopolies are making it impossible for a little guy to get in." Which is true. We can agree the regulatory capture is bad. In the meanwhile, Google is not openly saying they will run ML on your images on your phone. With Android, you don't have to sync to the cloud, and you could even replace or add your own camera option. You can side-load without jailbreaking, etc. Now, not that most consumer friendly option, but the advice for this crowd is still good - if you still have an iPhone and this is the last straw for you, there are plenty of good options that still exist, today. And then - let's fight regulatory capture and big government so a more dynamic marketplace can take root.
      - edrxty 5y ago
        Sure, but I already have an android. The concern I have is that the regulatory landscape will change if Apple opens Pandora's box. Google could just as easily do the same thing, hampered only by their complete inability to keep androids updated. I have a pine phone but what happens if the Congress critters decide everyone should have this feature and networks should ban devices that don't. The point is that we're REALLY playing with fire here.
      - notriddle 5y ago
        > Assuming the marketplace is functioning It's not. That's the problem.
      - handrous 5y ago
        > Assuming the marketplace is functioning, the demand for these sort of "features" (aka: non-features) would assume there would be a rational supplier to give it. The assumption that a "functioning" market will do a good job of catering to even fairly popular wishes does not seem to hold true in the real world, including for cases in which I'm pretty damn sure it's not some kind of government interference causing it not to. It's utterly common for plain ol' commodities subject to no special government scrutiny or control and with many suppliers to provide no option for features or product-types that would surely have many buyers, simply because no-one expects the returns to be as high as doing something else with the same capacity. AFAIK this happens for a bunch of reasons, including that information is very, very far from being perfectly shared in all parts of the market, that there are significant costs associated with quality information-gathering, and efficient use of capital tending to cause production to cluster around tiny little bits of the possible product space (similar to how pharmacies like to build right next to each other, rather than spreading out to reduce travel-time-to-a-pharmacy in an area)
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I could not find any Toyota that does OTA updates. Honda has a website to do a USB update, but I could not find evidence that they do OTA either: https://usb.honda.com/ https://usb.honda.com/ Subaru lets you do it over your Wifi, but does not seem like they come with a modem: https://techinfo.subaru.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/Gen4_FOTA_HOWTO_v5.pdf https://techinfo.subaru.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/Gen4_FOTA_H... Although, Mazda’s website does say this, so maybe it will not be for long before they all come connected to mobile networks: https://newsroom.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2021/202106/210617a.html https://newsroom.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2021/202106/... > Mazda intends to fortify our initiatives of development of fundamental software technology in order to be able to accommodate for next-generation Mobility as a Service (Maas) and update vehicle functions Over the Air (OTA) > Five Japanese OEM companies 3 including Mazda will jointly develop standard engineering specifications of next-generation in-vehicle communication devices to push for a standardized communication system in order to provide safer and stress-free connected services sooner.
  - zepto 5y ago
    Google’s photo library already scans for CSAM.
    - nsizx 5y ago
      But not in your device.
      - zepto 5y ago
        No - it’s worse than that. They can scan for anything they like. They have made no promises about limiting what they do.
        nsizx 5y ago
        Source?
        zepto 5y ago
        https://support.google.com/transparencyreport/answer/10330933?hl=en#zippy=%2Cwhat-is-googles-approach-to-combating-csam%2Chow-does-google-identify-csam-on-its-platform%2Cwhat-is-csam https://support.google.com/transparencyreport/answer/1033093... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/04/google-child-abuse-ncmec-internet-watch-gmail https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/04/google-ch...
        nsizx 5y ago
        Nothing in those links says that Google can scan the pictures you store in your device using your own device to do the scanning.
        zepto 5y ago
        You seem to be confused about what Apple is doing. Nothing anywhere says that Apple scans the pictures you store on your own device. They only scan the pictures you upload to their cloud service. The scanning is done on device before upload in Apple’s case, and in the cloud after upload in Google’s case, but either way it is only done to photos that are uploaded to their cloud services. If you are really claiming Apple scans the photos you don’t upload to iCloud Photo Library, then you are lying or dissembling. I assume that is not what actually what you mean.
echelon 5y ago
Regulate it. The FBI/CIA/CCP are not the people we elect. My representative is behind the charge to undo the app store monopoly. We can also push for less surveillance, less centralization of power, etc. It seems if the OS vendor doesn't get to have a default browser, default app store, and default cloud store, that they don't get access to scan your files without asking either. Legislate.
- csw-001 5y ago
  Agreed. Democratically decide where the lines are, or ought to be, then move those lines with amendments and revisions as needed. Judge those lines in the broader context of our legal system. We balance these issues in the physical world with warrants and judicial oversight - that's what we need here - sensible middle ground the democracy can live with.
nzeribe 5y ago
"Consumer choice" is not how you stop hostile all-pervasive monopoly machine learning algorithms. The number of times I've heard from smart people: "Don't use Google"; "Don't use Amazon"; "Microsoft are evil" (true) - now "Don't buy it". Running into the hedgerows and away from the mainstream of digital life is not an option for all but a tiny fraction of people. "Just get an Android phone!" is an even worse idea.
- arsome 5y ago
  I have to disagree - privacy requires openness. Indeed, "just get an Android phone" from Google, OnePlus and several other major manufacturers is a viable solution - they allow you full control over the device without their permission. You don't want Google? No problem, blow the ROM away and install Lineage without GApps, you can even mess with MicroG if you're reliant on some app that needs Play Services.
  - zepto 5y ago
    In terms of avoiding CSAM detection they give you no more control than Apple. If you use Google’s Photo Library, your photos have already been scanned.
  - causi 5y ago
    Well, almost. Both of them have their "fuck the user" quirks. Oneplus spent a goodly amount of time exfiltrating private data to their own servers until they got caught and Google has a bad habit of disabling features like HDMI-out to force you to buy their other products like Chromecast.
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    That's an option for the tech literate. I want an option that is "grandma" compatible. In other words, it isn't really viable if you can't just buy it off the shelf, or have to dig into settings to opt out. Right now if I go to Best Buy (or insert your favorite retailer here), I can't buy hardware off the shelf that won't send my data to a remote server by default.
  - NexRebular 5y ago
lamontcg 5y ago
You dropped your "/s"

Don't buy it

edrxty 5y ago

That's becoming less of an option by the day and will only accelerate if Apple gets their way.

alttab 5y ago
Literally just get an Android phone.
- fredsir 5y ago
  If you think it's not spreading to Android phones, you are naive. Apple set the precedent, now it's gonna come to every mainstream device. The only option is to abandon ship.
  - cmurf 5y ago
    For a split second I lamented the demise of Windows Phone. But they too would just follow. But I do lament the end of Firefox OS.
- edrxty 5y ago
  Sure, now find me a new car that doesn't have the ability to do OTA updates
  - alttab 5y ago
    Assuming the marketplace is functioning, the demand for these sort of "features" (aka: non-features) would assume there would be a rational supplier to give it. The next step in that debate is "yeah but the big monopolies are making it impossible for a little guy to get in." Which is true. We can agree the regulatory capture is bad. In the meanwhile, Google is not openly saying they will run ML on your images on your phone. With Android, you don't have to sync to the cloud, and you could even replace or add your own camera option. You can side-load without jailbreaking, etc. Now, not that most consumer friendly option, but the advice for this crowd is still good - if you still have an iPhone and this is the last straw for you, there are plenty of good options that still exist, today. And then - let's fight regulatory capture and big government so a more dynamic marketplace can take root.
    - edrxty 5y ago
      Sure, but I already have an android. The concern I have is that the regulatory landscape will change if Apple opens Pandora's box. Google could just as easily do the same thing, hampered only by their complete inability to keep androids updated. I have a pine phone but what happens if the Congress critters decide everyone should have this feature and networks should ban devices that don't. The point is that we're REALLY playing with fire here.
    - notriddle 5y ago
      > Assuming the marketplace is functioning It's not. That's the problem.
    - handrous 5y ago
      > Assuming the marketplace is functioning, the demand for these sort of "features" (aka: non-features) would assume there would be a rational supplier to give it. The assumption that a "functioning" market will do a good job of catering to even fairly popular wishes does not seem to hold true in the real world, including for cases in which I'm pretty damn sure it's not some kind of government interference causing it not to. It's utterly common for plain ol' commodities subject to no special government scrutiny or control and with many suppliers to provide no option for features or product-types that would surely have many buyers, simply because no-one expects the returns to be as high as doing something else with the same capacity. AFAIK this happens for a bunch of reasons, including that information is very, very far from being perfectly shared in all parts of the market, that there are significant costs associated with quality information-gathering, and efficient use of capital tending to cause production to cluster around tiny little bits of the possible product space (similar to how pharmacies like to build right next to each other, rather than spreading out to reduce travel-time-to-a-pharmacy in an area)
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I could not find any Toyota that does OTA updates. Honda has a website to do a USB update, but I could not find evidence that they do OTA either: https://usb.honda.com/ https://usb.honda.com/ Subaru lets you do it over your Wifi, but does not seem like they come with a modem: https://techinfo.subaru.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/Gen4_FOTA_HOWTO_v5.pdf https://techinfo.subaru.com/stis/doc/ownerManual/Gen4_FOTA_H... Although, Mazda’s website does say this, so maybe it will not be for long before they all come connected to mobile networks: https://newsroom.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2021/202106/210617a.html https://newsroom.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2021/202106/... > Mazda intends to fortify our initiatives of development of fundamental software technology in order to be able to accommodate for next-generation Mobility as a Service (Maas) and update vehicle functions Over the Air (OTA) > Five Japanese OEM companies 3 including Mazda will jointly develop standard engineering specifications of next-generation in-vehicle communication devices to push for a standardized communication system in order to provide safer and stress-free connected services sooner.
- zepto 5y ago
  Google’s photo library already scans for CSAM.
  - nsizx 5y ago
    But not in your device.
    - zepto 5y ago
      No - it’s worse than that. They can scan for anything they like. They have made no promises about limiting what they do.
      - nsizx 5y ago
        Source?
        zepto 5y ago
        https://support.google.com/transparencyreport/answer/10330933?hl=en#zippy=%2Cwhat-is-googles-approach-to-combating-csam%2Chow-does-google-identify-csam-on-its-platform%2Cwhat-is-csam https://support.google.com/transparencyreport/answer/1033093... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/04/google-child-abuse-ncmec-internet-watch-gmail https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/04/google-ch...
        nsizx 5y ago
        Nothing in those links says that Google can scan the pictures you store in your device using your own device to do the scanning.
        zepto 5y ago
        You seem to be confused about what Apple is doing. Nothing anywhere says that Apple scans the pictures you store on your own device. They only scan the pictures you upload to their cloud service. The scanning is done on device before upload in Apple’s case, and in the cloud after upload in Google’s case, but either way it is only done to photos that are uploaded to their cloud services. If you are really claiming Apple scans the photos you don’t upload to iCloud Photo Library, then you are lying or dissembling. I assume that is not what actually what you mean.

echelon 5y ago

Regulate it. The FBI/CIA/CCP are not the people we elect. My representative is behind the charge to undo the app store monopoly. We can also push for less surveillance, less centralization of power, etc. It seems if the OS vendor doesn't get to have a default browser, default app store, and default cloud store, that they don't get access to scan your files without asking either. Legislate.

csw-001 5y ago
Agreed. Democratically decide where the lines are, or ought to be, then move those lines with amendments and revisions as needed. Judge those lines in the broader context of our legal system. We balance these issues in the physical world with warrants and judicial oversight - that's what we need here - sensible middle ground the democracy can live with.

nzeribe 5y ago

"Consumer choice" is not how you stop hostile all-pervasive monopoly machine learning algorithms. The number of times I've heard from smart people: "Don't use Google"; "Don't use Amazon"; "Microsoft are evil" (true) - now "Don't buy it". Running into the hedgerows and away from the mainstream of digital life is not an option for all but a tiny fraction of people. "Just get an Android phone!" is an even worse idea.

arsome 5y ago
I have to disagree - privacy requires openness. Indeed, "just get an Android phone" from Google, OnePlus and several other major manufacturers is a viable solution - they allow you full control over the device without their permission. You don't want Google? No problem, blow the ROM away and install Lineage without GApps, you can even mess with MicroG if you're reliant on some app that needs Play Services.
- zepto 5y ago
  In terms of avoiding CSAM detection they give you no more control than Apple. If you use Google’s Photo Library, your photos have already been scanned.
- causi 5y ago
  Well, almost. Both of them have their "fuck the user" quirks. Oneplus spent a goodly amount of time exfiltrating private data to their own servers until they got caught and Google has a bad habit of disabling features like HDMI-out to force you to buy their other products like Chromecast.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  That's an option for the tech literate. I want an option that is "grandma" compatible. In other words, it isn't really viable if you can't just buy it off the shelf, or have to dig into settings to opt out. Right now if I go to Best Buy (or insert your favorite retailer here), I can't buy hardware off the shelf that won't send my data to a remote server by default.
- NexRebular 5y ago

lamontcg 5y ago

You dropped your "/s"