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The sad irony is that if HN is anything to go by, SQLite is super trendy now. I feel like "just sqlite" was really a very practical idea and now, because it ha

by kall 5y ago

The sad irony is that if HN is anything to go by, SQLite is super trendy now. I feel like "just sqlite" was really a very practical idea and now, because it has already failed once, we can‘t really try it again, or can we? Having the spec basically be "bundle one particular piece of software into the browser" might not be in the spirit of web standards, but on the other hand SQLite is so widely bundled into everything, does it really matter?

EMM_386 5y ago
> The sad irony is that if HN is anything to go by, SQLite is super trendy now. If you look at the recent StackOverflow survey, the majority of the developers only have around 5 years of professional experience in the industry. SQL has been around since the 1970s and is still around in force for reason. There's a good chance a lot of developers, especially the enormous number on the front end, do not have experience with SQL or are just getting into back-end work where they are exposed to it. There have been a lot of SQLite articles recently, as well as node.js libraries to query SQL. I have a hunch this may be why.
- kall 5y ago
  Yeah I think so too. It‘s a cliche by now to say these things go in cycles but they do. If we like this part of the cycle, let‘s ride it and let SQL get hyped, even though its been around forever and never went away.
  - 411111111111111 5y ago
    What gives you the confidence that it's going on circles? I cannot see our industry repeating the mantra that NoSQL solves all our persistence problems ever again. There are use cases for them, but not everything is a good fit and I'm pretty sure we found that out as an industry. I'm sure there are always going to be individuals that will claim that they're better at everything, but that doesn't really mean anything. There are people that believe in a flat earth as well after all
    - coliveira 5y ago
      The cycles don't happen exactly. But I'm pretty sure they will come up with something new that in the end is the same as NoSQL and give it a trendy name, so young developers will believe they found gold and run with it... It is just the way these things keep happening.
    - regularfry 5y ago
      The cycles are longer than you're imagining. Relational database folk have been railing against the incursions of one generation of non-relational database type or another since at least the 1980's.
      - smackeyacky 5y ago
        Actually, relational databases are the relative newcomers. The limitations of things like CODASYL were well known to 1960s programmers and Codd's relational model sought to address them. Why the non-relational databases keep getting reinvented has been a bit of a mystery when there is already a rich history of development to look to. I get the feeling a lot of the industry isn't much into history, especially of pre-micro computer systems. Network databases, key-value stores, graph databases, commercial offerings like Pick... you'd think the NoSQL people would have looked into it all before proclaiming their new found solutions, but apparently not.
        scns 5y ago
        "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - Sir Winston Churchill He is paraphrasing: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905. That inspired René Magritte to paint this: https://americanart.si.edu/artwork/those-who-cannot-remember-past-are-condemned-repeat-it-george-santayana-life-reason-1905 https://americanart.si.edu/artwork/those-who-cannot-remember... Making the connection to events in our lifetime: https://hankeringforhistory.com/those-who-cannot-remember-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it/ https://hankeringforhistory.com/those-who-cannot-remember-th... (edit) Some more reflections on it: https://blog.rtcx.net/remember https://blog.rtcx.net/remember
- jkcxn 5y ago
  If anyone else is curious https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#developer-profile-experience https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#developer-pro... Most people responding have 5 or more years of experience
  - endisneigh 5y ago
    You’re both right - most people have coded for more than 5, but most people have been coding professionally for 5 or less.
    - jkcxn 5y ago
      No I'm talking about professionally, 64.33% of respondents have 5 years or more professional experience
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
There's no such thing as "the SQLite" that you could even theoretically bundle. Which version do you want to bundle? With which compile flags and which extensions? Do you have a checklist for bug-for-bug compatibility? Because you'll definitely need one when a future SQLite releases a security patch and breaks a million webpages.

by kall 5y ago

EMM_386 5y ago

> The sad irony is that if HN is anything to go by, SQLite is super trendy now. If you look at the recent StackOverflow survey, the majority of the developers only have around 5 years of professional experience in the industry. SQL has been around since the 1970s and is still around in force for reason. There's a good chance a lot of developers, especially the enormous number on the front end, do not have experience with SQL or are just getting into back-end work where they are exposed to it. There have been a lot of SQLite articles recently, as well as node.js libraries to query SQL. I have a hunch this may be why.

kall 5y ago
Yeah I think so too. It‘s a cliche by now to say these things go in cycles but they do. If we like this part of the cycle, let‘s ride it and let SQL get hyped, even though its been around forever and never went away.
- 411111111111111 5y ago
  What gives you the confidence that it's going on circles? I cannot see our industry repeating the mantra that NoSQL solves all our persistence problems ever again. There are use cases for them, but not everything is a good fit and I'm pretty sure we found that out as an industry. I'm sure there are always going to be individuals that will claim that they're better at everything, but that doesn't really mean anything. There are people that believe in a flat earth as well after all
  - coliveira 5y ago
    The cycles don't happen exactly. But I'm pretty sure they will come up with something new that in the end is the same as NoSQL and give it a trendy name, so young developers will believe they found gold and run with it... It is just the way these things keep happening.
  - regularfry 5y ago
    The cycles are longer than you're imagining. Relational database folk have been railing against the incursions of one generation of non-relational database type or another since at least the 1980's.
    - smackeyacky 5y ago
      Actually, relational databases are the relative newcomers. The limitations of things like CODASYL were well known to 1960s programmers and Codd's relational model sought to address them. Why the non-relational databases keep getting reinvented has been a bit of a mystery when there is already a rich history of development to look to. I get the feeling a lot of the industry isn't much into history, especially of pre-micro computer systems. Network databases, key-value stores, graph databases, commercial offerings like Pick... you'd think the NoSQL people would have looked into it all before proclaiming their new found solutions, but apparently not.
      - scns 5y ago
        "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - Sir Winston Churchill He is paraphrasing: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905. That inspired René Magritte to paint this: https://americanart.si.edu/artwork/those-who-cannot-remember-past-are-condemned-repeat-it-george-santayana-life-reason-1905 https://americanart.si.edu/artwork/those-who-cannot-remember... Making the connection to events in our lifetime: https://hankeringforhistory.com/those-who-cannot-remember-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it/ https://hankeringforhistory.com/those-who-cannot-remember-th... (edit) Some more reflections on it: https://blog.rtcx.net/remember https://blog.rtcx.net/remember
jkcxn 5y ago
If anyone else is curious https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#developer-profile-experience https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#developer-pro... Most people responding have 5 or more years of experience
- endisneigh 5y ago
  You’re both right - most people have coded for more than 5, but most people have been coding professionally for 5 or less.
  - jkcxn 5y ago
    No I'm talking about professionally, 64.33% of respondents have 5 years or more professional experience

otabdeveloper4 5y ago

There's no such thing as "the SQLite" that you could even theoretically bundle. Which version do you want to bundle? With which compile flags and which extensions? Do you have a checklist for bug-for-bug compatibility? Because you'll definitely need one when a future SQLite releases a security patch and breaks a million webpages.