3 ms·

"these changes in front-end frameworks makes everything slower" everyone starts screaming "these changes in front-end frameworks makes everything bonkers faste

"these changes in front-end frameworks makes everything slower" everyone starts screaming "these changes in front-end frameworks makes everything bonkers faster" chirps kudos to the Next team doing the good work

leerob 5y ago
Thank you! We strongly believe Rust is the future of JS tooling[1] and will be investing heavily in this ecosystem. It's been in the works for awhile[2] and I'm happy to start seeing these changes land in Next.js. `npm i next@latest` for perf improvements every time is the goal! [1]: https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/1417861178290851842 https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/1417861178290851842 [2]: https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448 https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448
- dmitryminkovsky 5y ago
  Hadn’t heard of SWC, only esbuild. Why did your team choose SWC/rust over esbuild/go? This: https://mobile.twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448 https://mobile.twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448 ? Thanks a lot for Next.js and the Vercel platform. Both are great.
  - leerob 5y ago
    We chose SWC over esbuild for a few reasons: 1. SWC is designed to be extensible. We can use it as a crate with no forks! [1] 2. We love the Rust ecosystem. Stellar community & WASM support. Excellent long-term performance prospects (like total control over memory management). [1]: https://github.com/padmaia/next.js/blob/cf1d081c5b2f55085cebc9509b13c67c4bf34bd1/packages/next/build/swc/src/lib.rs#L40-L46 https://github.com/padmaia/next.js/blob/cf1d081c5b2f55085ceb...
    - wdb 5y ago
      Seems reasonable decision but for me it increases the barrier to contribute. I already learning Go to contribute to some projects
      - leerob 5y ago
        We're planning to try and release learning material around Rust!
- cercatrova 5y ago
  So is SWC integrated in 11.1? Or is it still _being_ integrated? As in, will I see the performance improvements from SWC by upgrading, or is this just the groundwork for it to be more widely integrated?
  - leerob 5y ago
    Still being integrated - the next release will have a flag you can turn on.
dmitryminkovsky 5y ago
My thoughts exactly. Was surprised this wasn’t on the homepage.
rektide 5y ago
this take is singe-ing but I think it ellucidates a truth that the vast arrayed pissed off scared vocal anti-web-progress retrogressionist amassing un-silent minorities are so pissy about: we have only just started getting good at the web. the web is still ripe, still, exciting, still heavily heavily optimizable & usable for the cuttingest of cutting edgest computing & computing experiences. look: the web is often poorly utilized. the folks making money have been doing so at great cost to the user for a long time, on one hand, and the tech itself is still radically underexplored, under tried, under utilized, and most companies use cookie cutter massified software development tools that radically constrain what systems they might produce. they refuse to think. but some people do think. they have some good thoughts. they reconsider what these platforms might be used to enable, rethink how to assemble experiences from this base matter, from these first toolkits. kudos to everyone still engaged with working the web towards better: we have so much to find out, so much to try, to tune, to evolve along, and we need diverse spirit of all kinds of efforts trying for better. that's why the web keeps winning. because the tool kit can, because the web is low level, because it permits endless platform & architectural engineering atop it's simple & long long long enduring media form.
- rektide 5y ago
  that said 80% of what's described here is a dev experience modernization, if limited real value to the user experience. oops. over jumping my claims a bit. who gives a crap about esm? you need to have it. bundlers that arent shitty bloated slow beasts? good yes, but to me not a tuallyuch of a difference h my hot reload was under 2s before, usually I didn't even bother & suffered a full 5s progressive recompile. shaving those seconds off is a distraction from architectural redefinition of the core constituating elements of web which is the real ongoing game afoot. value? oh sure, by eliminating inefficiency, but not fundamentally progressive: a way to do more faster.

leerob 5y ago

Thank you! We strongly believe Rust is the future of JS tooling[1] and will be investing heavily in this ecosystem. It's been in the works for awhile[2] and I'm happy to start seeing these changes land in Next.js. `npm i next@latest` for perf improvements every time is the goal! [1]: https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/1417861178290851842 https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/1417861178290851842 [2]: https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448 https://twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448

dmitryminkovsky 5y ago
Hadn’t heard of SWC, only esbuild. Why did your team choose SWC/rust over esbuild/go? This: https://mobile.twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448 https://mobile.twitter.com/rauchg/status/979525321882984448 ? Thanks a lot for Next.js and the Vercel platform. Both are great.
- leerob 5y ago
  We chose SWC over esbuild for a few reasons: 1. SWC is designed to be extensible. We can use it as a crate with no forks! [1] 2. We love the Rust ecosystem. Stellar community & WASM support. Excellent long-term performance prospects (like total control over memory management). [1]: https://github.com/padmaia/next.js/blob/cf1d081c5b2f55085cebc9509b13c67c4bf34bd1/packages/next/build/swc/src/lib.rs#L40-L46 https://github.com/padmaia/next.js/blob/cf1d081c5b2f55085ceb...
  - wdb 5y ago
    Seems reasonable decision but for me it increases the barrier to contribute. I already learning Go to contribute to some projects
    - leerob 5y ago
      We're planning to try and release learning material around Rust!
cercatrova 5y ago
So is SWC integrated in 11.1? Or is it still _being_ integrated? As in, will I see the performance improvements from SWC by upgrading, or is this just the groundwork for it to be more widely integrated?
- leerob 5y ago
  Still being integrated - the next release will have a flag you can turn on.

dmitryminkovsky 5y ago

My thoughts exactly. Was surprised this wasn’t on the homepage.

rektide 5y ago

this take is singe-ing but I think it ellucidates a truth that the vast arrayed pissed off scared vocal anti-web-progress retrogressionist amassing un-silent minorities are so pissy about: we have only just started getting good at the web. the web is still ripe, still, exciting, still heavily heavily optimizable & usable for the cuttingest of cutting edgest computing & computing experiences. look: the web is often poorly utilized. the folks making money have been doing so at great cost to the user for a long time, on one hand, and the tech itself is still radically underexplored, under tried, under utilized, and most companies use cookie cutter massified software development tools that radically constrain what systems they might produce. they refuse to think. but some people do think. they have some good thoughts. they reconsider what these platforms might be used to enable, rethink how to assemble experiences from this base matter, from these first toolkits. kudos to everyone still engaged with working the web towards better: we have so much to find out, so much to try, to tune, to evolve along, and we need diverse spirit of all kinds of efforts trying for better. that's why the web keeps winning. because the tool kit can, because the web is low level, because it permits endless platform & architectural engineering atop it's simple & long long long enduring media form.

rektide 5y ago
that said 80% of what's described here is a dev experience modernization, if limited real value to the user experience. oops. over jumping my claims a bit. who gives a crap about esm? you need to have it. bundlers that arent shitty bloated slow beasts? good yes, but to me not a tuallyuch of a difference h my hot reload was under 2s before, usually I didn't even bother & suffered a full 5s progressive recompile. shaving those seconds off is a distraction from architectural redefinition of the core constituating elements of web which is the real ongoing game afoot. value? oh sure, by eliminating inefficiency, but not fundamentally progressive: a way to do more faster.