6 ms·

If people don't want them, then they don't pay enough (or have other issues - work safety, etc.). That's how the market works...

nemo44x 5y ago
It could be, but really I think it's more than that. These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. A lot of people who would be qualified for these types of jobs don't want to do that. They'd rather pick and choose and float around at places for less money and less financial security. This isn't like fast food restaurants having trouble hiring people at minimum wage because stimmy checks pay more than working. People come in and they want the job and they work a week or 2 and then disappear after they get paid and then come back when they need money again. That type of work ethic just isn't compatible with this kind of career so they end up at an Amazon warehouse, driving Ubers, and delivering food instead since that does support their lifestyle choice.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location they are in. The proof is the data showing wages for factory type work stagnating for many decades now (until the recent few years). People incorporate that knowledge, and let their kids know that those jobs are not worth investing in. How many factory towns are there where the factory closes or downsizes and the whole town goes into economic decline? You need to pay a lot to offset that kind of risk. The other proof is also that I bet they can get lots of qualified applicants that will “show up everyday and work”. Just offer $200k per year. Or $500k per year. Obviously the purchasers of that type of labor are not offering enough money.
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    > They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location they are in. I mean, there's a lot of alcoholism problems and drug issues too. >People incorporate that knowledge, and let their kids know that those jobs are not worth investing in. I'm not sure the wisdom of the crowds is a great example here. How many kids are in many thousands of debt and working at dead end jobs or as a barista, etc. because they got a useless degree from a third rate university? > How many factory towns are there where the factory closes or downsizes and the whole town goes into economic decline? You need to pay a lot to offset that kind of risk. I don't think I'm describing factory town style jobs of yesteryear. There are many solid jobs in tool and die, machining, etc that are mainly run by small to mid-sized shops. Literally thousands of these around the country. There are a lot of people making a great living in these places, it's just that there's a shortage of qualified labor. Similar to software companies - there's a shortage of labor and it isn't because they aren't paying enough. Additionally, a lot of people think this kind of work is below them because they went to a university to study a field that they can't make it in. > The other proof is also that I bet they can get lots of qualified applicants that will “show up everyday and work”. Just offer $200k per year. Or $500k per year. Obviously the purchasers of that type of labor are not offering enough money. Yeah probably but I'm not sure that's economic. Also, the starting pay won't be the best but you rise fairly quickly through the ranks where the money improves. But like I said before, there are a lot of people making a good life for themselves with a home, a family, vacations, and a solid American life in these places. This life exists for people. But you would think it isn't even available - but it is. Kids complain that they are 50k in debt from school, can't find a job that pays well and will never be able to afford a home or have kids. But that's not true. There's a career out there in modern manufacturing if they are willing to humble themselves.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      > Additionally, a lot of people think this kind of work is below them because they went to a university to study a field that they can't make it in. People think it is "below them" because they saw the people who went into white collar professions in their parents' generation come out ahead. Pay enough (and advertise the pay) and people's perception will change. >But you would think it isn't even available - but it is. Where are the job postings showing the pay and benefits? Why do the stats indicate the wages not increasing much? >There's a career out there in modern manufacturing if they are willing to humble themselves. The situation might have changed recently, but those jobs have definitely not paid sufficiently for the past few decades to make it a worthwhile investment. This is shown by definition, since they are complaining about lack of candidates for the job positions. If they paid appropriately and competitively, by definition people would have opted to work those jobs.

nemo44x 5y ago

It could be, but really I think it's more than that. These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. A lot of people who would be qualified for these types of jobs don't want to do that. They'd rather pick and choose and float around at places for less money and less financial security. This isn't like fast food restaurants having trouble hiring people at minimum wage because stimmy checks pay more than working. People come in and they want the job and they work a week or 2 and then disappear after they get paid and then come back when they need money again. That type of work ethic just isn't compatible with this kind of career so they end up at an Amazon warehouse, driving Ubers, and delivering food instead since that does support their lifestyle choice.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
> These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location they are in. The proof is the data showing wages for factory type work stagnating for many decades now (until the recent few years). People incorporate that knowledge, and let their kids know that those jobs are not worth investing in. How many factory towns are there where the factory closes or downsizes and the whole town goes into economic decline? You need to pay a lot to offset that kind of risk. The other proof is also that I bet they can get lots of qualified applicants that will “show up everyday and work”. Just offer $200k per year. Or $500k per year. Obviously the purchasers of that type of labor are not offering enough money.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  > They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location they are in. I mean, there's a lot of alcoholism problems and drug issues too. >People incorporate that knowledge, and let their kids know that those jobs are not worth investing in. I'm not sure the wisdom of the crowds is a great example here. How many kids are in many thousands of debt and working at dead end jobs or as a barista, etc. because they got a useless degree from a third rate university? > How many factory towns are there where the factory closes or downsizes and the whole town goes into economic decline? You need to pay a lot to offset that kind of risk. I don't think I'm describing factory town style jobs of yesteryear. There are many solid jobs in tool and die, machining, etc that are mainly run by small to mid-sized shops. Literally thousands of these around the country. There are a lot of people making a great living in these places, it's just that there's a shortage of qualified labor. Similar to software companies - there's a shortage of labor and it isn't because they aren't paying enough. Additionally, a lot of people think this kind of work is below them because they went to a university to study a field that they can't make it in. > The other proof is also that I bet they can get lots of qualified applicants that will “show up everyday and work”. Just offer $200k per year. Or $500k per year. Obviously the purchasers of that type of labor are not offering enough money. Yeah probably but I'm not sure that's economic. Also, the starting pay won't be the best but you rise fairly quickly through the ranks where the money improves. But like I said before, there are a lot of people making a good life for themselves with a home, a family, vacations, and a solid American life in these places. This life exists for people. But you would think it isn't even available - but it is. Kids complain that they are 50k in debt from school, can't find a job that pays well and will never be able to afford a home or have kids. But that's not true. There's a career out there in modern manufacturing if they are willing to humble themselves.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    > Additionally, a lot of people think this kind of work is below them because they went to a university to study a field that they can't make it in. People think it is "below them" because they saw the people who went into white collar professions in their parents' generation come out ahead. Pay enough (and advertise the pay) and people's perception will change. >But you would think it isn't even available - but it is. Where are the job postings showing the pay and benefits? Why do the stats indicate the wages not increasing much? >There's a career out there in modern manufacturing if they are willing to humble themselves. The situation might have changed recently, but those jobs have definitely not paid sufficiently for the past few decades to make it a worthwhile investment. This is shown by definition, since they are complaining about lack of candidates for the job positions. If they paid appropriately and competitively, by definition people would have opted to work those jobs.