6 ms·

PayPal User Charged $4,000 for Mac OS X Lion Download

37 points by olegious 15y ago

lambada 15y ago
I didn't realise Apple accepted PayPal, when did they get this integration?
- rimantas 15y ago
  The problem must be on Apple's side anyway. I was lucky and only got charged trice and I did not use Paypal, just my App Store account. I hope to get extra charges back without doing anything, because technically money are still on my CC account just "frozen". After some time they are "unfrozen" automatically if merchant does not claim them. I see Apple already took it's share (I had three entries with the same amount, now only two are left) so the rest should stay in the account and be unfrozen in a few days. Still not funny.
- yardie 15y ago
  In the US? 2005.
pilif 15y ago
sounds familiar: When I wanted to upgrade a SL Server and I already had a Lion client license, the App Store told me that I also need the Server License and whether I wanted to buy it. That made sense like this and I said yes. This gave me an error 500 and the recommendation to try again. And again And again I got suspicious when the App Store told me that my credit card was declined and low and behold: Yes. Every error 500 charged me with a Lion client and a Lion server license until my Credit Card company's fraud detection locked my card. The App Store has shown 7 instances of Lion and 6 instances of Lion Server in the purchased tab, but neither "Install" button actually worked (error 500). To their credit, they refunded the purchases, but not without telling me in their ticket response that this is a very generous exception they are making this one time and that all app store purchases are final. I guess they are just not quite there where they should be to sell an OS over only electronic means.
- ZoFreX 15y ago
  > this is a very generous exception they are making this one time and that all app store purchases are final Statements like this make me very glad I live in a country where such declarations are automatically fiction.
  - dspillett 15y ago
    This can't be legal in many places. It certainly isn't here in the EU, and I find it hard to believe that most (if not all) US states don't have consumer protection regulations that cover this. If the error is due to a fault in the system the customer should not be punished for that error. I'm not an iStuff user at all at the moment, but would consider an iDevice if it were ever the right tool for the job at the right price. If they are going to try make the customers pay for faults like this (forcing the customer to know and quote relevant law/regulations to get the right thing done) then my attitude will move to never touching an iProduct for as long as I live and recommending friends/family/other take a similar stance.
    - jamaicahest 15y ago
      In most situations you can just tell your bank to block the transaction and that's the end of it. If you have a bank worth a damn.
    - ZoFreX 15y ago
      I don't mean just from a fault perspective - if I buy something online in general I can get a refund later if I merely change my mind (although I don't know if this applies to purely digital purchases). In the UK, most of the times you see "No refunds", the sign in question has zero effect.
baddox 15y ago
Slightly similar to this: I recently jailbroke my iPad 2 and installed a cracked application through installous. When you do that, legitimate updates to your cracked applications appear in the app store. Somehow, through some sort of bug, I was actually charged for the app when I accidentally clicked "update all" in the app store. It never asked me for my password (possibly because I had input it recently enough) or asked for a confirmation on the purchase. I didn't even notice it had been purchased until the iTunes receipt came in my email the next day.
- Haplo 15y ago
  So they actually made you pay for a paid app that is installed on your iPad and that you updated through their system. Big deal! That's hardly a bug of Apple, in my opinion. Installous should be hiding the cracked applications better, it's their bug. Maybe ask for a refund for Installous?
  - baddox 15y ago
    The bug is that it didn't ask me to confirm before putting a charge on my account. Normally, if you try to update an app that hasn't been purchased on your account, it will give an error that the discounted price is not available on your account because you haven't purchased the app. This is most certainly not a big in Installous. Have you used Installous? All it is is a collection of links to cracked .ipa's that people upload to free file-sharing sites.
- gary4gar 15y ago
  Piracy is not justification.You should not pirate apps in first place. you are breaking law here. Now since you were using the app & enjoying all its benefits -- its developers are full rights to get paid for their labour & hard work.
  - jamaicahest 15y ago
    So because he stole the app, the developer is allowed to steal money from him? What kind of logic is that?
SODaniel 15y ago
PCmag.com = FoxNews of online reporting.
SODaniel 15y ago
502 it went through, 504 try once more.
- ars 15y ago
  That's a reddit failure, not some kind of global rule.
jarin 15y ago
Ok so the problem here is not that there is a bug in the payment processing. That shouldn't happen, but it does. The problem is that neither of these multi-billion dollar companies cares about this customer enough to suck up a $4000 error until it gets straightened out. I've been a long time customer of both Apple and PayPal. It seems like Apple did eventually refund the purchases, although I would have expected them to do it faster. PayPal, on the other hand, literally does not give a shit about you or the fact that you can't eat until your transaction goes through their absurdly slow system. Ever notice that Bank of America's ATMs can scan and process a check and give you money in 10 seconds, but PayPal takes 10 days?
- sliverstorm 15y ago
  To be fair, everything in the banking & money transfer world takes 2-3 days, and Paypal acts as a middleman, so an in => out would take 4-6 (business) days. The only reason Bank of America's ATM gives you cash on the spot is it scans the check, "thinks" it is good, and BoA credits you cash. Paypal is not in the business of crediting anyone anything, not in the least because anybody can sign up for an account with almost no identification.
  - davweb 15y ago
    The 2-3 day wait isn't the case in the UK anymore. UK banks - under pressure from the government via the Office of Fair Trading - now process money transfers in half a day. The point is that the transfer never required that long to process, but if a Bank (or PayPal) can hold on to your money for a few extra days then it's a few more days of interest on the money for them. http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/faster_payments_service/background/ http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/faster_payments_service/backgro...
    - cma 15y ago
      In the US they also hold it that long so that if you overdraft they can retroactively reorder your transactions largest first so that you will get the maximum number of overdraft fees.
  - 15y ago
fakeer 15y ago
Wow.. Apple, you go, sometimes, a little too far in giving us "the user experience".

37 points by olegious 15y ago

lambada 15y ago

I didn't realise Apple accepted PayPal, when did they get this integration?

rimantas 15y ago
The problem must be on Apple's side anyway. I was lucky and only got charged trice and I did not use Paypal, just my App Store account. I hope to get extra charges back without doing anything, because technically money are still on my CC account just "frozen". After some time they are "unfrozen" automatically if merchant does not claim them. I see Apple already took it's share (I had three entries with the same amount, now only two are left) so the rest should stay in the account and be unfrozen in a few days. Still not funny.
yardie 15y ago
In the US? 2005.

pilif 15y ago

sounds familiar: When I wanted to upgrade a SL Server and I already had a Lion client license, the App Store told me that I also need the Server License and whether I wanted to buy it. That made sense like this and I said yes. This gave me an error 500 and the recommendation to try again. And again And again I got suspicious when the App Store told me that my credit card was declined and low and behold: Yes. Every error 500 charged me with a Lion client and a Lion server license until my Credit Card company's fraud detection locked my card. The App Store has shown 7 instances of Lion and 6 instances of Lion Server in the purchased tab, but neither "Install" button actually worked (error 500). To their credit, they refunded the purchases, but not without telling me in their ticket response that this is a very generous exception they are making this one time and that all app store purchases are final. I guess they are just not quite there where they should be to sell an OS over only electronic means.

ZoFreX 15y ago
> this is a very generous exception they are making this one time and that all app store purchases are final Statements like this make me very glad I live in a country where such declarations are automatically fiction.
- dspillett 15y ago
  This can't be legal in many places. It certainly isn't here in the EU, and I find it hard to believe that most (if not all) US states don't have consumer protection regulations that cover this. If the error is due to a fault in the system the customer should not be punished for that error. I'm not an iStuff user at all at the moment, but would consider an iDevice if it were ever the right tool for the job at the right price. If they are going to try make the customers pay for faults like this (forcing the customer to know and quote relevant law/regulations to get the right thing done) then my attitude will move to never touching an iProduct for as long as I live and recommending friends/family/other take a similar stance.
  - jamaicahest 15y ago
    In most situations you can just tell your bank to block the transaction and that's the end of it. If you have a bank worth a damn.
  - ZoFreX 15y ago
    I don't mean just from a fault perspective - if I buy something online in general I can get a refund later if I merely change my mind (although I don't know if this applies to purely digital purchases). In the UK, most of the times you see "No refunds", the sign in question has zero effect.

baddox 15y ago

Slightly similar to this: I recently jailbroke my iPad 2 and installed a cracked application through installous. When you do that, legitimate updates to your cracked applications appear in the app store. Somehow, through some sort of bug, I was actually charged for the app when I accidentally clicked "update all" in the app store. It never asked me for my password (possibly because I had input it recently enough) or asked for a confirmation on the purchase. I didn't even notice it had been purchased until the iTunes receipt came in my email the next day.

Haplo 15y ago
So they actually made you pay for a paid app that is installed on your iPad and that you updated through their system. Big deal! That's hardly a bug of Apple, in my opinion. Installous should be hiding the cracked applications better, it's their bug. Maybe ask for a refund for Installous?
- baddox 15y ago
  The bug is that it didn't ask me to confirm before putting a charge on my account. Normally, if you try to update an app that hasn't been purchased on your account, it will give an error that the discounted price is not available on your account because you haven't purchased the app. This is most certainly not a big in Installous. Have you used Installous? All it is is a collection of links to cracked .ipa's that people upload to free file-sharing sites.
gary4gar 15y ago
Piracy is not justification.You should not pirate apps in first place. you are breaking law here. Now since you were using the app & enjoying all its benefits -- its developers are full rights to get paid for their labour & hard work.
- jamaicahest 15y ago
  So because he stole the app, the developer is allowed to steal money from him? What kind of logic is that?

SODaniel 15y ago

PCmag.com = FoxNews of online reporting.

SODaniel 15y ago

502 it went through, 504 try once more.

ars 15y ago
That's a reddit failure, not some kind of global rule.

jarin 15y ago

Ok so the problem here is not that there is a bug in the payment processing. That shouldn't happen, but it does. The problem is that neither of these multi-billion dollar companies cares about this customer enough to suck up a $4000 error until it gets straightened out. I've been a long time customer of both Apple and PayPal. It seems like Apple did eventually refund the purchases, although I would have expected them to do it faster. PayPal, on the other hand, literally does not give a shit about you or the fact that you can't eat until your transaction goes through their absurdly slow system. Ever notice that Bank of America's ATMs can scan and process a check and give you money in 10 seconds, but PayPal takes 10 days?

sliverstorm 15y ago
To be fair, everything in the banking & money transfer world takes 2-3 days, and Paypal acts as a middleman, so an in => out would take 4-6 (business) days. The only reason Bank of America's ATM gives you cash on the spot is it scans the check, "thinks" it is good, and BoA credits you cash. Paypal is not in the business of crediting anyone anything, not in the least because anybody can sign up for an account with almost no identification.
- davweb 15y ago
  The 2-3 day wait isn't the case in the UK anymore. UK banks - under pressure from the government via the Office of Fair Trading - now process money transfers in half a day. The point is that the transfer never required that long to process, but if a Bank (or PayPal) can hold on to your money for a few extra days then it's a few more days of interest on the money for them. http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/faster_payments_service/background/ http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/faster_payments_service/backgro...
  - cma 15y ago
    In the US they also hold it that long so that if you overdraft they can retroactively reorder your transactions largest first so that you will get the maximum number of overdraft fees.
- 15y ago

fakeer 15y ago

Wow.. Apple, you go, sometimes, a little too far in giving us "the user experience".