7 ms·

'91 would be better though - better salaries in a lot of jobs, and lower house prices. GPS on the phone is awesome, but I'd still prefer financial security.

ghaff 5y ago
>better salaries in a lot of jobs Factory jobs that is probably true in general--though you're still into the period when a lot of traditional union manufacturing jobs were leaving (or had left) the country. As an engineer/software developer, you're probably going to be paid about $40K for an entry-level position [ADDED: For the US at a "tech" company]. And there is basically no equivalent to routine FAANG SWE salaries. Housing is cheaper (relatively) in some locations although the Bay Area was still relatively expensive. Manhattan was considered the high-priced place to live at the time.
- nivenkos 5y ago
  My entry level software job was $35k in 2015 in London! Outside the US, jobs across the board paid a lot more before 2008.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  There are many factory jobs today and companies have a difficult time filling them. They are not the monotonous, repetitive jobs of assembly line work (that has been outsourced) but rather involve some skill that you'll be taught. But it's hard to find people to fill these roles as qualified candidates in many cases think the jobs are below them (college educated but can't find work in their field) or they simply don't want to show up every day and work. Many people today choose lifestyle centered work (gig economy, part time roles for short term, etc) rather than work that lets them build a life. I have multiple friends that have gone this route out of high school with no college and started at the bottom and have over the years acquired more skills and knowledge and some have moved into supervisory and management roles after their companies financed some additional skills like using spreadsheets, basic management, etc. The endless stories of people that start, work a week and get a check, don't show for 2 weeks and then come back thinking they are still employed is amazing. The jobs exist and they pay well, but not enough people want them.
  - nivenkos 5y ago
    If people don't want them, then they don't pay enough (or have other issues - work safety, etc.). That's how the market works...
    - nemo44x 5y ago
      It could be, but really I think it's more than that. These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. A lot of people who would be qualified for these types of jobs don't want to do that. They'd rather pick and choose and float around at places for less money and less financial security. This isn't like fast food restaurants having trouble hiring people at minimum wage because stimmy checks pay more than working. People come in and they want the job and they work a week or 2 and then disappear after they get paid and then come back when they need money again. That type of work ethic just isn't compatible with this kind of career so they end up at an Amazon warehouse, driving Ubers, and delivering food instead since that does support their lifestyle choice.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        > These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location they are in. The proof is the data showing wages for factory type work stagnating for many decades now (until the recent few years). People incorporate that knowledge, and let their kids know that those jobs are not worth investing in. How many factory towns are there where the factory closes or downsizes and the whole town goes into economic decline? You need to pay a lot to offset that kind of risk. The other proof is also that I bet they can get lots of qualified applicants that will “show up everyday and work”. Just offer $200k per year. Or $500k per year. Obviously the purchasers of that type of labor are not offering enough money.
        5y ago
- mech422 5y ago
  I was making $50K/year as a developer on Wall St. with 2-3 years professional experience...and it was awesome. And yes, the HFT guys got 'FAANG' salaries. HFT was in its infancy, and those guys were making bank! While the absolute numbers may seem small by today's standards, it was more then enough for a single 20something to have the time of their lives. Even paying Manhattan rents, we were out 5-6 nights a week clubbing and partying
jjav 5y ago
> '91 would be better though - better salaries in a lot of jobs Not in tech though. Engineering jobs paid middle-class level well, but nothing out of the ordinary for white-collar professionals. Starting salaries were in the 30Ks for top offers in rich companies but many people started in the 20Ks. You had to be Sr.Dir/VP level to start getting close to 100K. The concept of engineers with a few years of experience making more salary than top-level surgeons was inconceivable. So purely on a financial sense, it's much better to be a new grad in software today than in '91. Still, I'd rather be paid 35K doing ground-breaking UNIX kernel or networking work than be paid 500K building yet another adware/spyware social app.

ghaff 5y ago

>better salaries in a lot of jobs Factory jobs that is probably true in general--though you're still into the period when a lot of traditional union manufacturing jobs were leaving (or had left) the country. As an engineer/software developer, you're probably going to be paid about $40K for an entry-level position [ADDED: For the US at a "tech" company]. And there is basically no equivalent to routine FAANG SWE salaries. Housing is cheaper (relatively) in some locations although the Bay Area was still relatively expensive. Manhattan was considered the high-priced place to live at the time.

nivenkos 5y ago
My entry level software job was $35k in 2015 in London! Outside the US, jobs across the board paid a lot more before 2008.
nemo44x 5y ago
There are many factory jobs today and companies have a difficult time filling them. They are not the monotonous, repetitive jobs of assembly line work (that has been outsourced) but rather involve some skill that you'll be taught. But it's hard to find people to fill these roles as qualified candidates in many cases think the jobs are below them (college educated but can't find work in their field) or they simply don't want to show up every day and work. Many people today choose lifestyle centered work (gig economy, part time roles for short term, etc) rather than work that lets them build a life. I have multiple friends that have gone this route out of high school with no college and started at the bottom and have over the years acquired more skills and knowledge and some have moved into supervisory and management roles after their companies financed some additional skills like using spreadsheets, basic management, etc. The endless stories of people that start, work a week and get a check, don't show for 2 weeks and then come back thinking they are still employed is amazing. The jobs exist and they pay well, but not enough people want them.
- nivenkos 5y ago
  If people don't want them, then they don't pay enough (or have other issues - work safety, etc.). That's how the market works...
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    It could be, but really I think it's more than that. These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. A lot of people who would be qualified for these types of jobs don't want to do that. They'd rather pick and choose and float around at places for less money and less financial security. This isn't like fast food restaurants having trouble hiring people at minimum wage because stimmy checks pay more than working. People come in and they want the job and they work a week or 2 and then disappear after they get paid and then come back when they need money again. That type of work ethic just isn't compatible with this kind of career so they end up at an Amazon warehouse, driving Ubers, and delivering food instead since that does support their lifestyle choice.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      > These jobs pay really well and they offer a career ladder. You will be able to buy a home, have children, take vacations. But you need to show up every day and work. They obviously do not pay commensurate to the risks of job loss, lack of quality of life at a job, and/or to make up for the undesirability for the location they are in. The proof is the data showing wages for factory type work stagnating for many decades now (until the recent few years). People incorporate that knowledge, and let their kids know that those jobs are not worth investing in. How many factory towns are there where the factory closes or downsizes and the whole town goes into economic decline? You need to pay a lot to offset that kind of risk. The other proof is also that I bet they can get lots of qualified applicants that will “show up everyday and work”. Just offer $200k per year. Or $500k per year. Obviously the purchasers of that type of labor are not offering enough money.
      - 5y ago
mech422 5y ago
I was making $50K/year as a developer on Wall St. with 2-3 years professional experience...and it was awesome. And yes, the HFT guys got 'FAANG' salaries. HFT was in its infancy, and those guys were making bank! While the absolute numbers may seem small by today's standards, it was more then enough for a single 20something to have the time of their lives. Even paying Manhattan rents, we were out 5-6 nights a week clubbing and partying

jjav 5y ago

> '91 would be better though - better salaries in a lot of jobs Not in tech though. Engineering jobs paid middle-class level well, but nothing out of the ordinary for white-collar professionals. Starting salaries were in the 30Ks for top offers in rich companies but many people started in the 20Ks. You had to be Sr.Dir/VP level to start getting close to 100K. The concept of engineers with a few years of experience making more salary than top-level surgeons was inconceivable. So purely on a financial sense, it's much better to be a new grad in software today than in '91. Still, I'd rather be paid 35K doing ground-breaking UNIX kernel or networking work than be paid 500K building yet another adware/spyware social app.