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> I am not interested in working for a company that is at the forefront of enabling further infringement on people's privacy Conducting scans on device instead

> I am not interested in working for a company that is at the forefront of enabling further infringement on people's privacy Conducting scans on device instead of on server is your idea of infringement of privacy? Apple's system keeps everything off their servers until there is an instance where many images on device match known examples of child porn and a human review is triggered. Google's system scans everything on server, so a single false positive is open to misuse by anyone who can get a subpoena. We've seen Google data misused to persecute the innocent before. >Innocent man, 23, sues Arizona police for $1.5million after being arrested for murder and jailed for six days when Google's GPS tracker wrongly placed him at the scene of the 2018 crime https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7897319/Police-arrested-innocent-man-murder-using-Google-location-data.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7897319/Police-arre...

hnrodey 5y ago
>Conducting scans on device instead of on server is your idea of infringement of privacy? It's an infringement on my right to freedom of speech. Client-side scanning merely opens the door for my device to censor me from sending any message of my choosing and impacts my ability to freely communicate. What is today child abuse, tomorrow is health information and further descends to political and religious memes, or whatever other content is deemed problematic.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  > Client-side scanning merely opens the door for my device to censor me from sending any message of my choosing and impacts my ability to freely communicate. Nonsense. Only photos you attempt to upload to Apple's iCloud are scanned. If you don't like it, turn off iCloud photos. >Q: So if iCloud Photos is disabled, the system does not work, which is the public language in the FAQ. I just wanted to ask specifically, when you disable iCloud Photos, does this system continue to create hashes of your photos on device, or is it completely inactive at that point? A: If users are not using iCloud Photos, NeuralHash will not run https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/interview-apples-head-of-privacy-details-child-abuse-detection-and-messages-safety-features/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/interview-apples-head-of-p... All the files you upload to your Google/Microsoft account are already being scanned today.
  - hnrodey 5y ago
    I stand behind my comments for any type of client-side scanning. There are two upcoming changes from Apple that are often conflated. First, indiscriminate server-side scanning of photos in iCloud against a non-public source database. Second, client-side scanning of messages for child accounts looking for nudity. Again, client-side scanning is part of the changes that Apple is implementing and I'm projecting on how the terms and conditions of this client-side behavior can and almost certainly will change over the coming years and iOS versions. It's a slow yet accelerating descent to hell.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      > I'm projecting on how the terms and conditions of this client-side behavior can and almost certainly will change The same gloom and doom imaginary projections can be made about what Google might do to Android in the future, and are just as accurate. For instance, discovery from one of the antitrust suits shows that Google pressured device makers to hide Android privacy settings. From this, I can project that Google will be completely removing privacy options in their entire ecosystem.
salawat 5y ago
>Conducting scans on device instead of on server is your idea of infringement of privacy? Why are you asking if the poster still beats their wife? (More specifically, you're pre-supposing scanning must happen, which by itself is a highly debatable assertion) Your point with Google is absolutely sound, but you seem to stop short of actually accepting that actual privacy (no peeking damnit) is dead on arrival. This is a case of rhetorical stealth goalpost moving whether you intended that or not.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  > you're pre-supposing scanning must happen No, I'm relaying the fact that scanning does happen, and has been happening for the past decade. >The system that scans cloud drives for illegal images was created by Microsoft and Dartmouth College and donated to NCMEC. The organization creates signatures of the worst known images of child pornography, approximately 16,000 files at present. These file signatures are given to service providers who then try to match them to user files in order to prevent further distribution of the images themselves, a Microsoft spokesperson told NBC News. (Microsoft implemented image-matching technology in its own services, such as Bing and SkyDrive.) https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/your-cloud-drive-really-private-not-according-fine-print-1c8881731 https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/your-cloud-drive-really-pr... >a man [was] arrested on child pornography charges, after Google tipped off authorities about illegal images found in the Houston suspect's Gmail account https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-led-to-a-mans-arrest-for-child-porn-was-not-a-privacy-violation/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-le... Apple refused to implement this until they found a more private method to handle things. Only photos you upload to iCloud are scanned and nothing happens unless multiple images match known examples of kiddie porn. In that case, a human review is triggered to make sure you didn't just have several false positives at once.

hnrodey 5y ago

>Conducting scans on device instead of on server is your idea of infringement of privacy? It's an infringement on my right to freedom of speech. Client-side scanning merely opens the door for my device to censor me from sending any message of my choosing and impacts my ability to freely communicate. What is today child abuse, tomorrow is health information and further descends to political and religious memes, or whatever other content is deemed problematic.

GeekyBear 5y ago
> Client-side scanning merely opens the door for my device to censor me from sending any message of my choosing and impacts my ability to freely communicate. Nonsense. Only photos you attempt to upload to Apple's iCloud are scanned. If you don't like it, turn off iCloud photos. >Q: So if iCloud Photos is disabled, the system does not work, which is the public language in the FAQ. I just wanted to ask specifically, when you disable iCloud Photos, does this system continue to create hashes of your photos on device, or is it completely inactive at that point? A: If users are not using iCloud Photos, NeuralHash will not run https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/interview-apples-head-of-privacy-details-child-abuse-detection-and-messages-safety-features/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/interview-apples-head-of-p... All the files you upload to your Google/Microsoft account are already being scanned today.
- hnrodey 5y ago
  I stand behind my comments for any type of client-side scanning. There are two upcoming changes from Apple that are often conflated. First, indiscriminate server-side scanning of photos in iCloud against a non-public source database. Second, client-side scanning of messages for child accounts looking for nudity. Again, client-side scanning is part of the changes that Apple is implementing and I'm projecting on how the terms and conditions of this client-side behavior can and almost certainly will change over the coming years and iOS versions. It's a slow yet accelerating descent to hell.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    > I'm projecting on how the terms and conditions of this client-side behavior can and almost certainly will change The same gloom and doom imaginary projections can be made about what Google might do to Android in the future, and are just as accurate. For instance, discovery from one of the antitrust suits shows that Google pressured device makers to hide Android privacy settings. From this, I can project that Google will be completely removing privacy options in their entire ecosystem.

salawat 5y ago

>Conducting scans on device instead of on server is your idea of infringement of privacy? Why are you asking if the poster still beats their wife? (More specifically, you're pre-supposing scanning must happen, which by itself is a highly debatable assertion) Your point with Google is absolutely sound, but you seem to stop short of actually accepting that actual privacy (no peeking damnit) is dead on arrival. This is a case of rhetorical stealth goalpost moving whether you intended that or not.

GeekyBear 5y ago
> you're pre-supposing scanning must happen No, I'm relaying the fact that scanning does happen, and has been happening for the past decade. >The system that scans cloud drives for illegal images was created by Microsoft and Dartmouth College and donated to NCMEC. The organization creates signatures of the worst known images of child pornography, approximately 16,000 files at present. These file signatures are given to service providers who then try to match them to user files in order to prevent further distribution of the images themselves, a Microsoft spokesperson told NBC News. (Microsoft implemented image-matching technology in its own services, such as Bing and SkyDrive.) https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/your-cloud-drive-really-private-not-according-fine-print-1c8881731 https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/your-cloud-drive-really-pr... >a man [was] arrested on child pornography charges, after Google tipped off authorities about illegal images found in the Houston suspect's Gmail account https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-led-to-a-mans-arrest-for-child-porn-was-not-a-privacy-violation/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/08/06/why-the-gmail-scan-that-le... Apple refused to implement this until they found a more private method to handle things. Only photos you upload to iCloud are scanned and nothing happens unless multiple images match known examples of kiddie porn. In that case, a human review is triggered to make sure you didn't just have several false positives at once.