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This kind of corporate "we need to be seen to be doing something rather than nothing" stuff does wind me up, it just makes people more annoyed (by breaking scri

This kind of corporate "we need to be seen to be doing something rather than nothing" stuff does wind me up, it just makes people more annoyed (by breaking scripts and causing unnecessary UI changes etc) and less receptive to actual arguments for social change while at the same time producing no practical increase in social justice. It's just inauthentic tokenism designed to keep the baying beast that is Twitter away. "Show, don't tell" is as good advice for PR as it is for storytelling in my opinion. I don't want you to tell me how great you are at tackling the issues of the day with token changes like this, I want you to show me by actually doing things that demonstrate you believe in the stuff that's coming out of your mouth rather than just trying to appear like a "good person". Changing "master" to "main" or "primary" is as authentic as Facebook or Google saying they care about privacy.

notafraudster 5y ago
Alternative perspective on exactly the same data: This kind of developer-driven change does not wind me up, because developers working on products should be able to reflect on how those products are part of society and if they choose to make changes in their branding, presentation, or diction, they should be able to do so. Mozilla has a pretty rich tradition of employee activism, as we all observed after the Eich debacle, and I suspect employees want their work to make them feel good in terms of alignment with their bedrock principles. This is true even if individual customers oppose their politics, especially since the vast majority of users will never notice this or read a changelog. Symbolic gestures are part of a program of practically increasing social justice. They do not replace more concrete measures, they are additive in addition to them: Mozilla and Thunderbird should still pursue employment equity, charitable works, and other mission-related goals while doing this. Although minor, the expression is authentic, and it is normal for symbolic gestures to precede other measures because it's normal to tackle problems through a combination of taking the most important actions and the easiest (even if minor) actions, the same way turning up the freezer a few degrees might not be the most important thing you can do to reduce your footprint but it is something you can do before you finish reading this post. "Tell" is good advice for changelogs, because the literal purpose of a changelog is to tell the changes that were made. If I'm dumb enough to waste my time reading a changelog (and I obviously am), I do want you to tell me what you actually changed, even if the change is a minor change to diction or a typo fix. Collapsing changelog entries into "changed some in-program text" obfuscates the actual change and does little to demonstrate the actual changes made. Being very worried about a change from "master" to "main" is as authentic as opponents of social justice quoting MLK to project an image of caring about social justice.
- ekianjo 5y ago
  > I suspect employees want their work to make them feel good in terms of alignment with their bedrock principles. if it makes you feel good to play with words I am not sure if thats a good energy expenditure for your activism. it feels like a cheap way to value signal instead of doing something actually meaningful.
  - getlawgdon 5y ago
    Words have meaning and power. How they are used literally changes the discourse. Your participation in this discussion is proof that the example under consideration has impact well beyond "playing with words."
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      yes words have meaning and the present change is wrong because it fails to understand the actual meaning of master.
      - paulryanrogers 5y ago
        Different people can interpret words differently. Replacing 'master' is a very low cost change which, IMO, can improve understanding of what is described. (Like main or root branch or vault password.) So why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage when it doesn't even work that well in Thunderbird?
        wayneftw 5y ago
        > ...why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage... Clinging? We're all just talking here and we don't have any authority over this software. Are we allowed to have differing opinions about what already took place? I think so. Personally, my opinion is that I laugh at these people for their empty virtue signaling that really doesn't help understanding here in this case. We don't have to be clinging in order to discuss how idiotic we think things are.
fluidcruft 5y ago
It could also have been that an end user filed a bug report or feature request and made a convincing case. Then someone just reads over the commit logs to write the version announcement. It does just seem to be an outgrowth of the whole "master" branch thing in git and low-hanging fruit for a contributor to tackle. Overall who cares, really. "Primary password" is better than "Main password" IMHO. I'm also not sure "Master password", "Primary password" or "Main password" are particularly intuitive. Probably better to name the resource like "Thunderbird account database password". Or just prompt to "Unlock password database".
- handrous 5y ago
  "Master password"'s advantage is the connection to the term, from the normal, non-computer world, "master key".
  - fluidcruft 5y ago
    Sure, but I'm willing to bet that next to nobody who doesn't work with encryption makes that analogy. You also don't typically use a "master key" to unlock a locked box of keys so it's not really a great analogy anyway.
    - handrous 5y ago
      Yeah, I'm aware it's not a perfect analogy, but it's still the best you're going to get for communicating the idea succinctly (just with the name, even) to a lay-person. Alternatives like "vault password" or "locker password" (or something along those lines), provided it's made very clear to the user, repeatedly and persistently, that their passwords are in something you're calling a vault or a locker, can be about as good. "Primary", or anything similar, is worse.
wolverine876 5y ago
> This kind of corporate "we need to be seen to be doing something rather than nothing" stuff does wind me up Do you see the long list of substantive work done, in this underfunded open source project?

notafraudster 5y ago

Alternative perspective on exactly the same data: This kind of developer-driven change does not wind me up, because developers working on products should be able to reflect on how those products are part of society and if they choose to make changes in their branding, presentation, or diction, they should be able to do so. Mozilla has a pretty rich tradition of employee activism, as we all observed after the Eich debacle, and I suspect employees want their work to make them feel good in terms of alignment with their bedrock principles. This is true even if individual customers oppose their politics, especially since the vast majority of users will never notice this or read a changelog. Symbolic gestures are part of a program of practically increasing social justice. They do not replace more concrete measures, they are additive in addition to them: Mozilla and Thunderbird should still pursue employment equity, charitable works, and other mission-related goals while doing this. Although minor, the expression is authentic, and it is normal for symbolic gestures to precede other measures because it's normal to tackle problems through a combination of taking the most important actions and the easiest (even if minor) actions, the same way turning up the freezer a few degrees might not be the most important thing you can do to reduce your footprint but it is something you can do before you finish reading this post. "Tell" is good advice for changelogs, because the literal purpose of a changelog is to tell the changes that were made. If I'm dumb enough to waste my time reading a changelog (and I obviously am), I do want you to tell me what you actually changed, even if the change is a minor change to diction or a typo fix. Collapsing changelog entries into "changed some in-program text" obfuscates the actual change and does little to demonstrate the actual changes made. Being very worried about a change from "master" to "main" is as authentic as opponents of social justice quoting MLK to project an image of caring about social justice.

ekianjo 5y ago
> I suspect employees want their work to make them feel good in terms of alignment with their bedrock principles. if it makes you feel good to play with words I am not sure if thats a good energy expenditure for your activism. it feels like a cheap way to value signal instead of doing something actually meaningful.
- getlawgdon 5y ago
  Words have meaning and power. How they are used literally changes the discourse. Your participation in this discussion is proof that the example under consideration has impact well beyond "playing with words."
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    yes words have meaning and the present change is wrong because it fails to understand the actual meaning of master.
    - paulryanrogers 5y ago
      Different people can interpret words differently. Replacing 'master' is a very low cost change which, IMO, can improve understanding of what is described. (Like main or root branch or vault password.) So why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage when it doesn't even work that well in Thunderbird?
      - wayneftw 5y ago
        > ...why cling to a word that has so much cultural baggage... Clinging? We're all just talking here and we don't have any authority over this software. Are we allowed to have differing opinions about what already took place? I think so. Personally, my opinion is that I laugh at these people for their empty virtue signaling that really doesn't help understanding here in this case. We don't have to be clinging in order to discuss how idiotic we think things are.

fluidcruft 5y ago

It could also have been that an end user filed a bug report or feature request and made a convincing case. Then someone just reads over the commit logs to write the version announcement. It does just seem to be an outgrowth of the whole "master" branch thing in git and low-hanging fruit for a contributor to tackle. Overall who cares, really. "Primary password" is better than "Main password" IMHO. I'm also not sure "Master password", "Primary password" or "Main password" are particularly intuitive. Probably better to name the resource like "Thunderbird account database password". Or just prompt to "Unlock password database".

handrous 5y ago
"Master password"'s advantage is the connection to the term, from the normal, non-computer world, "master key".
- fluidcruft 5y ago
  Sure, but I'm willing to bet that next to nobody who doesn't work with encryption makes that analogy. You also don't typically use a "master key" to unlock a locked box of keys so it's not really a great analogy anyway.
  - handrous 5y ago
    Yeah, I'm aware it's not a perfect analogy, but it's still the best you're going to get for communicating the idea succinctly (just with the name, even) to a lay-person. Alternatives like "vault password" or "locker password" (or something along those lines), provided it's made very clear to the user, repeatedly and persistently, that their passwords are in something you're calling a vault or a locker, can be about as good. "Primary", or anything similar, is worse.

wolverine876 5y ago

> This kind of corporate "we need to be seen to be doing something rather than nothing" stuff does wind me up Do you see the long list of substantive work done, in this underfunded open source project?