3 ms·
FISA orders are written by a Judge. Only judges can write these, this is the literal definition of a warrant. Warrants require specifics - Person X, person Y. T
by szc 5y ago
FISA orders are written by a Judge. Only judges can write these, this is the literal definition of a warrant. Warrants require specifics - Person X, person Y. These are enumerable. There is paperwork.
PRISM, based on the data available, is all about consuming data WITHOUT a warrant -- vacuuming data associated with identities that are not associated with ANY identities subject to a court order. Violating laws and possibly (USA) constitutional rights in quite a few ways. PRISM likely exists.
I ask of "sneak" to confirm their assertion that "PRISM == FISA orders" is true. Please present this "evidence" and the evidence of connection. If you cannot you are, by default, distributing mis-information, bad logic or at worst tying to mislead.
(my naive searching suggests that "sneak" is definitely not in a position to make these claims)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sneak 5y agoJudges can write lots of orders but that doesn't make them search warrants which are defined by the US constitution as requiring probable cause. FISA court orders are not search warrants. FISA Amendments Act (FAA) section 702 is the legal basis claimed by the NSA in a secret interpretation by the FISA court as the basis for PRISM targeted collection without search warrants, including US persons/citizens. It's on Wikipedia if you don't believe me: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveil...
- juanani 5y agoI can't figure it out, are you a corp shill or gubmint? Dang allows both if they are playing our side so this is truly confusing. Can't tell where they've pinned you, jeez they probably give out degrees for that level mental gymnastics.
- szc 5y agoI am neither. A similar exchange with sneak has happened previously. It is a frustrating exchange. The words that have been used attempt to tie two controversial topics together PRISM and FISA. The logic then seems to be that because companies can now report on FISA orders, this means they also willingly participated in PRISM. What has been said seems to ignore that the FISA reporting by companies shows the number of identities that data has been provided for. PRISM on the other hand looks like a program to collect as much data as possible, regardless of identity. At this point it is going to just be agree to disagree.
- sneak 5y agoPRISM is targeted surveillance, not bulk - these are the FISA court orders. Please read Bart Gellman's book, Dark Mirror, on the specifics of the Snowden documents. Despite being targeted, it is warrantless and is the #1 used source by the IC.