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I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising rou

by spolsky 15y ago

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association? So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

te_platt 15y ago
Past that - maybe sys admin paranoid.
hboon 15y ago
I don't think you are even paranoid by thinking about this. It's certainly possible. Not only to derail fund-raising, it's also a direct PR hit which can cause slowdowns in expansion and feature development.
learc83 15y ago
It does sound just too ridiculous. I mean it's one thing to find the safe and steal credit cards, but I find it more than a little odd that he burned a spare set of sheets in the fireplace.
- mayoff 15y ago
  The sheets could have simply been stolen.
- Mz 15y ago
  Someone elsewhere (in another related discussion on HN) suggested the place was probably used as a meth lab. They could have been destroying evidence or some such.
almightygod 15y ago
I think if the broader public knew about this it could damage AirBNB but at this point I'm guessing 90% of AirBNB customer base doesn't follow TC or HN and therefore will not be aware of the substantiated risk to their possessions. Maybe after the 10th or 11th serious robbery/rape/murder then This American Life will make an interesting show about it.
techiferous 15y ago
From the victim's post: "...came into my home earlier this month (apparently with several others, according to witnesses)..." So there were several of them. If this were a hotel industry conspiracy, I think it would be very difficult to pull off this way. All you need is for one renter to do this. Adding people to the conspiracy puts your conspiracy at risk of being found out. However, it's not too hard to imagine a random group of renters doing stupid stuff like this. Think about some immature people who weren't raised well and who are also drunk, on drugs, and/or slightly mentally ill. tl;dr It stretches the imagination less to chalk this up to a group of thugs than to a conspiracy.
- dreww 15y ago
  not necessarily all of the thugs had to be in on the conspiracy. perhaps only one was paid off.
dlss 15y ago
I think the answer is "quite paranoid" -- here are a couple possibilities I think are more likely than yours: - Early adopters were less likely to vandalize apartments, so as AirBnB becomes more mainstream we will see an increase in vandals. - Criminals are starting to realize that AirBnB lets them get around mandatory hotel registrations / ID checks - AirBnB hosts, having had many good experiences, have become more lax than they previously were in their screening/supervision of guests.
rdouble 15y ago
My apartment in SF was burglarized and the burglars used a crackhead from the park to act as a lookout and then take the heat later. I don't think this was an industry setup. However, I would be willing to bet that the real burglar just did the physical and ID theft part, and then let in a bunch of tweakers to wreck the place and throw the subsequent investigation off track.
Vivtek 15y ago
Whatever you are, I'm the same, because it's the second thing I thought of. But the first thing was that there are a lot of privileged young people out there whose friends might very well have thought a week of utter abandonment and breaking every possible rule would be the height of fun. And yeah, I can easily see that privileged young asshole finding it the height of humor to email the owner every now and then saying how nice the place was - more than likely laughing at how nice the owner actually found the place, if you see what I mean. I've been a landlord. There is nothing, and I mean nothing at all, that will destroy your faith in humanity more quickly. Seriously. Even though the majority of tenants are perfectly wonderful people, and even though I only had a grand total of six tenants before giving it up as a bad idea, there were some that were just ... well. It's really like a bad dream. This experience was worse than any of mine, and it was compressed into a single frenetic week of probable partying, but it's the same genre as one particular tenant I'm thinking of. She meant well. Her friends did not. And in the end, I was the one left with the holes punched in the wall, with the dryer stolen, with the garden shed piled to the roof with months-old garbage, with a kitchen floor that could easily have been a bus station, with evidence of a three-inch flood of water from the washing machine, with fleas in the carpet and holes in the yard after she'd signed a clear no-pets clause. (A friend and neighbor of ours owns several apartments in the neighborhood. One of the tenants she evicted had stabbed the refrigerator multiple times. Apparently on a lark.) So even though it's more fun to imagine it as a conspiracy, I'm afraid the gritty reality is that there are people out there who just don't give a shit about who suffers from their actions, and who think it's fun to damage things.
- Vivtek 15y ago
  And you know? I grew up not knowing this, and I wish I still didn't know it.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- X-Istence 15y ago
  I was recently talking to the home owner for the property I am renting and they told me that out of everyone they are renting to I along with my room mates are the most patient and most caring and following up than any of their other tenants. I actually care about the property, I talk to them when something happens, I follow up and make sure work gets done that is supposed to be done. The homeowner was telling me about one of their tenants who they are currently attempting to evict, would call up and leave a voicemail and just about 5 minutes later would send an angry email and not even 20 minutes later have a lawyer call them regarding a simple issue (screen door broke, house has AC and perfectly good functioning windows). When they last went by the place it was packed full of all kinds of crap (à la hoarders).
anonymous246 15y ago
WHOA! And I lose respect for another Internet legend. :(
onan_barbarian 15y ago
Occam's razor favors the 'meth-heads in her flat for a week' or 'malicious crazy person' hypotheses over the 'top-secret hit job' hypothesis. In your shoes, I would be more than a bit embarrassed to have espoused this particular conspiracy theory in public.
- loganfrederick 15y ago
  Joel might be famous in the technology space and maybe a bit wider via his Inc. magazine articles, but I doubt many people from the hotel industry care what he has to say on the matter. He's just posing hypotheticals anyway.
Vivtek 15y ago
Second answer to the same question: while it's almost certainly not a conspiracy, it's equally certain there are champagne corks flying in certain quarters.
Lucadg 15y ago
I thought the same but it does not matter wether this is a setup or not. What matters is that it could happen. airbnb can't do the same: sending somebody in a Hotel and destroy the room? That would prove nothing. Hotels/dedicated accommodations are run by professionals and the business model is sound. Airbnb is maybe too ahead of its time and will work greatly when our online identities are more "stable" if you see what I mean. Right now it's like finding a good developer by asking my friends in Facebook because it seems cheaper and cooler. It's not. Hosting somebody is not as easy as pointing the bed and the bathroom. It's way more complicated than that. Safety is just one aspect that non professional hosts have troubles dealing with. Disclaimer: I run an accommodation reservation system in many ways similar to airbnb and I love their idea. But we are going in the opposite direction: only professional hosts renting places dedicated to tourists (they don't live there), local Managers meeting and selecting the owners, visiting the accommodations (I often even test them sleeping there) and supporting the guests locally. It does not allow for fast growth but it's much safer for all the parties involved.
- dodo53 15y ago
  by finding a good tenant by asking your friends on Facebook might be a good idea - some form of social vouching would really help (even if it's friend-of-friend-of-friend).
hk43 15y ago
Well, afaik you travel a lot. Why don't YOU rent out your place via Airbnb? (nothing personal, but I know I would not rent my apartment just to earn a few $$$)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
scott_s 15y ago
Because the President of the United States is a preposterously entitled individual, and Nixon is one of the few that got caught while probing the limits of that entitlement. Arguing that something is plausible is not the same as arguing that something happened.
arvinjoar 15y ago
Just because you're paranoid it doesn't they're not after you.

by spolsky 15y ago

te_platt 15y ago

Past that - maybe sys admin paranoid.

hboon 15y ago

I don't think you are even paranoid by thinking about this. It's certainly possible. Not only to derail fund-raising, it's also a direct PR hit which can cause slowdowns in expansion and feature development.

learc83 15y ago

It does sound just too ridiculous. I mean it's one thing to find the safe and steal credit cards, but I find it more than a little odd that he burned a spare set of sheets in the fireplace.

mayoff 15y ago
The sheets could have simply been stolen.
Mz 15y ago
Someone elsewhere (in another related discussion on HN) suggested the place was probably used as a meth lab. They could have been destroying evidence or some such.

almightygod 15y ago

I think if the broader public knew about this it could damage AirBNB but at this point I'm guessing 90% of AirBNB customer base doesn't follow TC or HN and therefore will not be aware of the substantiated risk to their possessions. Maybe after the 10th or 11th serious robbery/rape/murder then This American Life will make an interesting show about it.

techiferous 15y ago

From the victim's post: "...came into my home earlier this month (apparently with several others, according to witnesses)..." So there were several of them. If this were a hotel industry conspiracy, I think it would be very difficult to pull off this way. All you need is for one renter to do this. Adding people to the conspiracy puts your conspiracy at risk of being found out. However, it's not too hard to imagine a random group of renters doing stupid stuff like this. Think about some immature people who weren't raised well and who are also drunk, on drugs, and/or slightly mentally ill. tl;dr It stretches the imagination less to chalk this up to a group of thugs than to a conspiracy.

dreww 15y ago
not necessarily all of the thugs had to be in on the conspiracy. perhaps only one was paid off.

dlss 15y ago

I think the answer is "quite paranoid" -- here are a couple possibilities I think are more likely than yours: - Early adopters were less likely to vandalize apartments, so as AirBnB becomes more mainstream we will see an increase in vandals. - Criminals are starting to realize that AirBnB lets them get around mandatory hotel registrations / ID checks - AirBnB hosts, having had many good experiences, have become more lax than they previously were in their screening/supervision of guests.

rdouble 15y ago

My apartment in SF was burglarized and the burglars used a crackhead from the park to act as a lookout and then take the heat later. I don't think this was an industry setup. However, I would be willing to bet that the real burglar just did the physical and ID theft part, and then let in a bunch of tweakers to wreck the place and throw the subsequent investigation off track.

Vivtek 15y ago

Whatever you are, I'm the same, because it's the second thing I thought of. But the first thing was that there are a lot of privileged young people out there whose friends might very well have thought a week of utter abandonment and breaking every possible rule would be the height of fun. And yeah, I can easily see that privileged young asshole finding it the height of humor to email the owner every now and then saying how nice the place was - more than likely laughing at how nice the owner actually found the place, if you see what I mean. I've been a landlord. There is nothing, and I mean nothing at all, that will destroy your faith in humanity more quickly. Seriously. Even though the majority of tenants are perfectly wonderful people, and even though I only had a grand total of six tenants before giving it up as a bad idea, there were some that were just ... well. It's really like a bad dream. This experience was worse than any of mine, and it was compressed into a single frenetic week of probable partying, but it's the same genre as one particular tenant I'm thinking of. She meant well. Her friends did not. And in the end, I was the one left with the holes punched in the wall, with the dryer stolen, with the garden shed piled to the roof with months-old garbage, with a kitchen floor that could easily have been a bus station, with evidence of a three-inch flood of water from the washing machine, with fleas in the carpet and holes in the yard after she'd signed a clear no-pets clause. (A friend and neighbor of ours owns several apartments in the neighborhood. One of the tenants she evicted had stabbed the refrigerator multiple times. Apparently on a lark.) So even though it's more fun to imagine it as a conspiracy, I'm afraid the gritty reality is that there are people out there who just don't give a shit about who suffers from their actions, and who think it's fun to damage things.

Vivtek 15y ago
And you know? I grew up not knowing this, and I wish I still didn't know it.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
X-Istence 15y ago
I was recently talking to the home owner for the property I am renting and they told me that out of everyone they are renting to I along with my room mates are the most patient and most caring and following up than any of their other tenants. I actually care about the property, I talk to them when something happens, I follow up and make sure work gets done that is supposed to be done. The homeowner was telling me about one of their tenants who they are currently attempting to evict, would call up and leave a voicemail and just about 5 minutes later would send an angry email and not even 20 minutes later have a lawyer call them regarding a simple issue (screen door broke, house has AC and perfectly good functioning windows). When they last went by the place it was packed full of all kinds of crap (à la hoarders).

anonymous246 15y ago

WHOA! And I lose respect for another Internet legend. :(

onan_barbarian 15y ago

Occam's razor favors the 'meth-heads in her flat for a week' or 'malicious crazy person' hypotheses over the 'top-secret hit job' hypothesis. In your shoes, I would be more than a bit embarrassed to have espoused this particular conspiracy theory in public.

loganfrederick 15y ago
Joel might be famous in the technology space and maybe a bit wider via his Inc. magazine articles, but I doubt many people from the hotel industry care what he has to say on the matter. He's just posing hypotheticals anyway.

Vivtek 15y ago

Second answer to the same question: while it's almost certainly not a conspiracy, it's equally certain there are champagne corks flying in certain quarters.

Lucadg 15y ago

I thought the same but it does not matter wether this is a setup or not. What matters is that it could happen. airbnb can't do the same: sending somebody in a Hotel and destroy the room? That would prove nothing. Hotels/dedicated accommodations are run by professionals and the business model is sound. Airbnb is maybe too ahead of its time and will work greatly when our online identities are more "stable" if you see what I mean. Right now it's like finding a good developer by asking my friends in Facebook because it seems cheaper and cooler. It's not. Hosting somebody is not as easy as pointing the bed and the bathroom. It's way more complicated than that. Safety is just one aspect that non professional hosts have troubles dealing with. Disclaimer: I run an accommodation reservation system in many ways similar to airbnb and I love their idea. But we are going in the opposite direction: only professional hosts renting places dedicated to tourists (they don't live there), local Managers meeting and selecting the owners, visiting the accommodations (I often even test them sleeping there) and supporting the guests locally. It does not allow for fast growth but it's much safer for all the parties involved.

dodo53 15y ago
by finding a good tenant by asking your friends on Facebook might be a good idea - some form of social vouching would really help (even if it's friend-of-friend-of-friend).

hk43 15y ago

Well, afaik you travel a lot. Why don't YOU rent out your place via Airbnb? (nothing personal, but I know I would not rent my apartment just to earn a few $$$)

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

scott_s 15y ago

Because the President of the United States is a preposterously entitled individual, and Nixon is one of the few that got caught while probing the limits of that entitlement. Arguing that something is plausible is not the same as arguing that something happened.

arvinjoar 15y ago

Just because you're paranoid it doesn't they're not after you.