6 ms·

I wonder if this is moving away from master/slave terminology similar to e.g. https://www.vice.com/en/article/8x7akv/masterslave-terminology-was-removed-from-py

I wonder if this is moving away from master/slave terminology similar to e.g. https://www.vice.com/en/article/8x7akv/masterslave-terminology-was-removed-from-python-programming-language https://www.vice.com/en/article/8x7akv/masterslave-terminolo...

g105b 5y ago
I've literally never heard of a slave password.
- daniel_iversen 5y ago
  that's more of a database (and other) term.
- seqizz 5y ago
  "master" is a "blocklisted" word now. I also think it's silly to change the word on places which doesn't have "slave"s (e.g. github master branch > main branch switch), but well..
  - el_oni 5y ago
    I read a gitlab blog[0] where they mention that "master" comes from bitkeeper where there was a master repository and slave repositories. It does make one wonder, if there was more diversity in CS when these things were being made whether "master-slave" analogies would have made it in or whether other analogies like "parent-child", "major-minor", "leader-follower" or similar would have made it in. [0] https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2021/03/10/new-git-default-branch-name/ https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2021/03/10/new-git-default-bra...
    - orangepanda 5y ago
      "Out of memory: Sacrificing child" does sound vaguely better than "Out of memory: Sacrificing slave"
    - bonzini 5y ago
      It's actually a coincidence: see https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2020-June/msg00023.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2020-June... In the end it doesn't really matter once the word has gotten tainted. It's still ugly that incorrect deductions spread so quickly and corrections don't.
    - bakul 5y ago
      The master-slave terminology is used outside of CS as well. For example in EE we have master-slave edge-triggered D or JK flip-flops. I don’t feel strongly either way about such word use but I am fine with renaming them too. The fact that such change is so triggering to some people is strange!
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    Got me curious about whitelist and the opposite.
mkotowski 5y ago
It would be quite ironic if, after all those changes, the words “primary” and “secondary” would simply become the synonyms of “master” and “slave”. And it wouldn’t be even that improbable, in my opinion at least. In the end, in many languages the word “figuratively” was so overused as a stand in for “literally”, that it became it informal synonym (I know for sure that it is a thing in both English and Polish, but it is probably more widespread). If words of completely opposite meaning can be blurred that way, it wouldn’t be so strange for that effect to emerge as a case of euphemism.
- llimos 5y ago
  > It would be quite ironic if, after all those changes, the words “primary” and “secondary” would simply become the synonyms of “master” and “slave”. As in, to describe actual human slavery? Most English-speaking countries don't have actual human slavery any more (or at least, they don't use the words master and slave to describe it.) So when using the words master and slave to refer to actual slavery, it's usually in a historical sense, and it seems unlikely that we'd change the words we use to refer to something in the past.
  - mkotowski 5y ago
    > As in, to describe actual human slavery? Sorry, but I do not understand the question. Do you mean as to distinguish slavery relationship in logical systems (as with databases) versus human relations? If so, that wasn’t my intention. What I was talking about was more about a euphemism replacing an actual word, as with taboo avoidance: > This terminology for the animal originated as a taboo avoidance term: proto-Germanic tribes replaced their original word for bear — arkto — with this euphemistic expression out of fear that speaking the animal's true name might cause it to appear. According to author Ralph Keyes, this is the oldest known euphemism. [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear#Etymology
    - llimos 5y ago
      That's very different. There, the thing being referred to is the thing they didn't want to refer to. Here, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with the _thing_ being referred to (a password, in this case.) The issue is that the commonly used word _also_ has some other associations. So picking a different word means you lose those associations. Not the same thing at all.

g105b 5y ago

I've literally never heard of a slave password.

daniel_iversen 5y ago
that's more of a database (and other) term.
seqizz 5y ago
"master" is a "blocklisted" word now. I also think it's silly to change the word on places which doesn't have "slave"s (e.g. github master branch > main branch switch), but well..
- el_oni 5y ago
  I read a gitlab blog[0] where they mention that "master" comes from bitkeeper where there was a master repository and slave repositories. It does make one wonder, if there was more diversity in CS when these things were being made whether "master-slave" analogies would have made it in or whether other analogies like "parent-child", "major-minor", "leader-follower" or similar would have made it in. [0] https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2021/03/10/new-git-default-branch-name/ https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2021/03/10/new-git-default-bra...
  - orangepanda 5y ago
    "Out of memory: Sacrificing child" does sound vaguely better than "Out of memory: Sacrificing slave"
  - bonzini 5y ago
    It's actually a coincidence: see https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2020-June/msg00023.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2020-June... In the end it doesn't really matter once the word has gotten tainted. It's still ugly that incorrect deductions spread so quickly and corrections don't.
  - bakul 5y ago
    The master-slave terminology is used outside of CS as well. For example in EE we have master-slave edge-triggered D or JK flip-flops. I don’t feel strongly either way about such word use but I am fine with renaming them too. The fact that such change is so triggering to some people is strange!
- agumonkey 5y ago
  Got me curious about whitelist and the opposite.

mkotowski 5y ago

It would be quite ironic if, after all those changes, the words “primary” and “secondary” would simply become the synonyms of “master” and “slave”. And it wouldn’t be even that improbable, in my opinion at least. In the end, in many languages the word “figuratively” was so overused as a stand in for “literally”, that it became it informal synonym (I know for sure that it is a thing in both English and Polish, but it is probably more widespread). If words of completely opposite meaning can be blurred that way, it wouldn’t be so strange for that effect to emerge as a case of euphemism.

llimos 5y ago
> It would be quite ironic if, after all those changes, the words “primary” and “secondary” would simply become the synonyms of “master” and “slave”. As in, to describe actual human slavery? Most English-speaking countries don't have actual human slavery any more (or at least, they don't use the words master and slave to describe it.) So when using the words master and slave to refer to actual slavery, it's usually in a historical sense, and it seems unlikely that we'd change the words we use to refer to something in the past.
- mkotowski 5y ago
  > As in, to describe actual human slavery? Sorry, but I do not understand the question. Do you mean as to distinguish slavery relationship in logical systems (as with databases) versus human relations? If so, that wasn’t my intention. What I was talking about was more about a euphemism replacing an actual word, as with taboo avoidance: > This terminology for the animal originated as a taboo avoidance term: proto-Germanic tribes replaced their original word for bear — arkto — with this euphemistic expression out of fear that speaking the animal's true name might cause it to appear. According to author Ralph Keyes, this is the oldest known euphemism. [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear#Etymology
  - llimos 5y ago
    That's very different. There, the thing being referred to is the thing they didn't want to refer to. Here, there is nothing whatsoever wrong with the _thing_ being referred to (a password, in this case.) The issue is that the commonly used word _also_ has some other associations. So picking a different word means you lose those associations. Not the same thing at all.