9 ms·

This was the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, similar studies will have to be done for the mRNA vaccines.

by yborg 5y ago

readthenotes1 5y ago
Similar? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v...
- sterlind 5y ago
  yikes! this is the first I'm reading that Pfizer seems (statistically) significantly inferior to Moderna in efficacy against Delta. seems Moderna has 60% better protection against infection, and 2x better against hospitalization (though ICU admission and deaths are at par between them.) having gotten Pfizer, I'm getting a little nervous.
  - hnyolo081221 5y ago
    having gotten Pfizer, I'm getting a little nervous. As someone that got my 2nd Pfizer dose at the end of February (coming on 6 mo. when efficacy might? drop off some) I'm not saying that I did go get a first round Moderna shot[1], but I'm not saying I didn't either. 1. If doses in my area of the country weren't going un-used and spoiling, and I wasn't in a household with people that aren't eligible, I never would have done something I haven't said I've done.
    - keneda7 5y ago
      I don't think you trying to take extra steps to protect yourself should be be looked down on by either side here. It your choice and right to do that especially if you checked that vaccines were being wasted in your area.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    I'm not sure how to read the linked abstract, maybe someone with more knowledge could chime in. The information I'm missing is what the absolute efficacy of those vaccines is against Delta. If the risk of being hospitalized while vaccinated with Moderna is "very, very low", then the risk of hospitalization while vaccinated with Pfizer, even if twice as high, would still be pretty low. I think this kind of actually useful info would be very useful in our current climate, where many people argue against vaccination. "Look, Pfizer is twice as bad as the other! Who knows what the other does? Better not get vaccinated at all!".
    - sterlind 5y ago
      Right, I should have clarified that both Pfizer and Moderna are quite effective at preventing hospitalization, 85% vs. 91% respectively. But because of base rate Moderna ends up being two-fold more effective.
    - patrickyeon 5y ago
      You might want to look at the full preprint, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v... I'm not in the field, but on page 13 you can see that there's a considerable difference in effectiveness against infection, but not against hospitalization (at least not yet). It's suggested that the recent changes in effectiveness are due to the Delta variant becoming prevalent. On page 15 there's a table with actual numbers from Minnesota. Drawing from similarly-sized pools of otherwise similar cohorts, they counted outcomes. Look at the bottom half, which covers people (in the vaccinated cohorts) who are considered "fully vaccinated" (14+ days since their second dose). So yeah, breakthroughs with Pfizer might be roughly twice as high, but "hospitalization or worse" is still 1/8th as likely as unvaccinated, and when you're looking at ICU admissions, Pfizer has had 2 and Moderna 1, so... small numbers make it hard to really compare. But look at that bottom row. 0 deaths for anybody vaccinated.

This was the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, similar studies will have to be done for the mRNA vaccines.

by yborg 5y ago

This was the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, similar studies will have to be done for the mRNA vaccines.

Similar? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v...

sterlind 5y ago
yikes! this is the first I'm reading that Pfizer seems (statistically) significantly inferior to Moderna in efficacy against Delta. seems Moderna has 60% better protection against infection, and 2x better against hospitalization (though ICU admission and deaths are at par between them.) having gotten Pfizer, I'm getting a little nervous.
- hnyolo081221 5y ago
  having gotten Pfizer, I'm getting a little nervous. As someone that got my 2nd Pfizer dose at the end of February (coming on 6 mo. when efficacy might? drop off some) I'm not saying that I did go get a first round Moderna shot[1], but I'm not saying I didn't either. 1. If doses in my area of the country weren't going un-used and spoiling, and I wasn't in a household with people that aren't eligible, I never would have done something I haven't said I've done.
  - keneda7 5y ago
    I don't think you trying to take extra steps to protect yourself should be be looked down on by either side here. It your choice and right to do that especially if you checked that vaccines were being wasted in your area.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  I'm not sure how to read the linked abstract, maybe someone with more knowledge could chime in. The information I'm missing is what the absolute efficacy of those vaccines is against Delta. If the risk of being hospitalized while vaccinated with Moderna is "very, very low", then the risk of hospitalization while vaccinated with Pfizer, even if twice as high, would still be pretty low. I think this kind of actually useful info would be very useful in our current climate, where many people argue against vaccination. "Look, Pfizer is twice as bad as the other! Who knows what the other does? Better not get vaccinated at all!".
  - sterlind 5y ago
    Right, I should have clarified that both Pfizer and Moderna are quite effective at preventing hospitalization, 85% vs. 91% respectively. But because of base rate Moderna ends up being two-fold more effective.
  - patrickyeon 5y ago
    You might want to look at the full preprint, https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v... I'm not in the field, but on page 13 you can see that there's a considerable difference in effectiveness against infection, but not against hospitalization (at least not yet). It's suggested that the recent changes in effectiveness are due to the Delta variant becoming prevalent. On page 15 there's a table with actual numbers from Minnesota. Drawing from similarly-sized pools of otherwise similar cohorts, they counted outcomes. Look at the bottom half, which covers people (in the vaccinated cohorts) who are considered "fully vaccinated" (14+ days since their second dose). So yeah, breakthroughs with Pfizer might be roughly twice as high, but "hospitalization or worse" is still 1/8th as likely as unvaccinated, and when you're looking at ICU admissions, Pfizer has had 2 and Moderna 1, so... small numbers make it hard to really compare. But look at that bottom row. 0 deaths for anybody vaccinated.