4 ms·

False equivalence.

by shigawire 5y ago

False equivalence.

gruez 5y ago
How so? Is it just because "pandemic"?
- zarzavat 5y ago
  The pandemic is an exercise in trading rights for lives. More rights leads to more deaths and vice versa. You can make a case that society should choose any particular point on that spectrum but the spectrum exists regardless.
thehappypm 5y ago
How so? This is actually a really interesting take—either be the “papers please” people or don’t be.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  You have to register to vote and link your vote to your registration. The vaccine-card equivalent of Republican Voter ID requirements would be mandating that everyone present a vaccine card before being allowed to vote with the intent of discouraging eligible Republican voters. The equivalent of present-day pollbooth security in vaccine-card form would be requiring people to associate themselves with an official vaccine record before shopping / working / etc. You wouldn't have to present an ID on the spot, but the records would be checked to look for two people claiming the same vaccination record, someone trying to claim a record that didn't exist, etc. Discrepancies would be investigated and if you were found to have fraudulently represented your vaccination status you'd be in trouble.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  Because voter ids were used in the past for discriminatory reasons. Requiring vaccines to not wear a mask in a store is a huge false equivalency and typical of right wing rhetoric.
  - Overton-Window 5y ago
    How do you suppose you mandate vaccination to enter a store without requiring ID?
    - idiotsecant 5y ago
      the same way we mandate almost anything. by trusting that the vast majority of people are sane and rational and will follow the law. most petty laws have a very, very minimal chance of getting caught if broken.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      Why does that matter? There are lots of stores that require ids to enter. Comparing stores wanting to see your id or vaccination card to the government not letting you vote is a false equivalency as has been said.
  - cyberge99 5y ago
    Voter IDs also create an illegal poll tax.
  - thehappypm 5y ago
    It's also discriminatory to require vaccinations to be a free member of society. Just like minorities are more likely to not have access to IDs to vote, minorities are also less likely to be vaccinated, statistically.
- zaptrem 5y ago
  Here’s just one way: One inconvenience is designed to solve a statistically-proven massively widespread problem (community spread of COVID) whereas the other inconvenience is promised to solve a problem the statistics show is nearly non-existent.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    AND statistically targets voters which happen to vote more often a specific party. Not surprisingly, it's not the party that wants to make it harder to vote.
  - TeeMassive 5y ago
    > whereas the other inconvenience is promised to solve a problem the statistics show is nearly non-existent Biden is the most popular president ever, millions of votes more than Obama.
    - dillondoyle 5y ago
      Except total votes don't matter much in our presidential system. Trump got the 2nd most and he lost... It comes down to a few ten thousands (or less) in critical swing states. There's a compelling statistical argument to be made that states like Georgia, or maybe perhaps even bigger margin in FL, might have gone another way without laws & regulations to make it harder to vote and cast a ballot by mail.
      - TeeMassive 5y ago
        > Except total votes don't matter much in our presidential system. Trump got the 2nd most and he lost... My point wasn't about "who won", only pointing out the statistics of popularity, considering that an election is basically a popularity contest. The most unpopular president (and vice-president) got more historical more votes than the last most popular president of the past 50-100 years.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Well, in one case, we work very hard to try to get everyone vaccinated driving vans around with shots and doing everything we can to get shots in arms (and is free). In another case we have no problem telling people that the ID office within 100 miles is open the 5th Wednesday of months that have a 5th Wednesday (and is a "nominal" fee). Because in one case society benefits from everyone getting shots and in the other case the decision makers benefit from not everyone getting an ID. That is to say, one major difference is the availability of the papers.
sixothree 5y ago
Also whataboutism.
- SvnewbKfvFxRPZG 5y ago
  "Precisely - "whataboutism" is a word used by people who want to impose standards on others that they themselves refuse to abide by. That word is invoked the minute someone points out that they do exactly that which they want to condemn others for doing: Put another way, the word "whataboutism" is the shield which hypocrites use against anyone who points out that they themselves do that which they pretend to oppose. The word is intended to render hypocrisy irrelevant and inquiries about consistently inherently illegitimate." https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1396946165355229184 https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/139694616535522...

False equivalence.

gruez 5y ago

How so? Is it just because "pandemic"?

zarzavat 5y ago
The pandemic is an exercise in trading rights for lives. More rights leads to more deaths and vice versa. You can make a case that society should choose any particular point on that spectrum but the spectrum exists regardless.

thehappypm 5y ago

How so? This is actually a really interesting take—either be the “papers please” people or don’t be.

jjoonathan 5y ago
You have to register to vote and link your vote to your registration. The vaccine-card equivalent of Republican Voter ID requirements would be mandating that everyone present a vaccine card before being allowed to vote with the intent of discouraging eligible Republican voters. The equivalent of present-day pollbooth security in vaccine-card form would be requiring people to associate themselves with an official vaccine record before shopping / working / etc. You wouldn't have to present an ID on the spot, but the records would be checked to look for two people claiming the same vaccination record, someone trying to claim a record that didn't exist, etc. Discrepancies would be investigated and if you were found to have fraudulently represented your vaccination status you'd be in trouble.
edgyquant 5y ago
Because voter ids were used in the past for discriminatory reasons. Requiring vaccines to not wear a mask in a store is a huge false equivalency and typical of right wing rhetoric.
- Overton-Window 5y ago
  How do you suppose you mandate vaccination to enter a store without requiring ID?
  - idiotsecant 5y ago
    the same way we mandate almost anything. by trusting that the vast majority of people are sane and rational and will follow the law. most petty laws have a very, very minimal chance of getting caught if broken.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    Why does that matter? There are lots of stores that require ids to enter. Comparing stores wanting to see your id or vaccination card to the government not letting you vote is a false equivalency as has been said.
- cyberge99 5y ago
  Voter IDs also create an illegal poll tax.
- thehappypm 5y ago
  It's also discriminatory to require vaccinations to be a free member of society. Just like minorities are more likely to not have access to IDs to vote, minorities are also less likely to be vaccinated, statistically.
zaptrem 5y ago
Here’s just one way: One inconvenience is designed to solve a statistically-proven massively widespread problem (community spread of COVID) whereas the other inconvenience is promised to solve a problem the statistics show is nearly non-existent.
- dillondoyle 5y ago
  AND statistically targets voters which happen to vote more often a specific party. Not surprisingly, it's not the party that wants to make it harder to vote.
- TeeMassive 5y ago
  > whereas the other inconvenience is promised to solve a problem the statistics show is nearly non-existent Biden is the most popular president ever, millions of votes more than Obama.
  - dillondoyle 5y ago
    Except total votes don't matter much in our presidential system. Trump got the 2nd most and he lost... It comes down to a few ten thousands (or less) in critical swing states. There's a compelling statistical argument to be made that states like Georgia, or maybe perhaps even bigger margin in FL, might have gone another way without laws & regulations to make it harder to vote and cast a ballot by mail.
    - TeeMassive 5y ago
      > Except total votes don't matter much in our presidential system. Trump got the 2nd most and he lost... My point wasn't about "who won", only pointing out the statistics of popularity, considering that an election is basically a popularity contest. The most unpopular president (and vice-president) got more historical more votes than the last most popular president of the past 50-100 years.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
HWR_14 5y ago
Well, in one case, we work very hard to try to get everyone vaccinated driving vans around with shots and doing everything we can to get shots in arms (and is free). In another case we have no problem telling people that the ID office within 100 miles is open the 5th Wednesday of months that have a 5th Wednesday (and is a "nominal" fee). Because in one case society benefits from everyone getting shots and in the other case the decision makers benefit from not everyone getting an ID. That is to say, one major difference is the availability of the papers.

sixothree 5y ago

Also whataboutism.

SvnewbKfvFxRPZG 5y ago
"Precisely - "whataboutism" is a word used by people who want to impose standards on others that they themselves refuse to abide by. That word is invoked the minute someone points out that they do exactly that which they want to condemn others for doing: Put another way, the word "whataboutism" is the shield which hypocrites use against anyone who points out that they themselves do that which they pretend to oppose. The word is intended to render hypocrisy irrelevant and inquiries about consistently inherently illegitimate." https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1396946165355229184 https://mobile.twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/139694616535522...