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Question: remember when the distribution of these vaccines was a logistical impossibility due to requiring minus 100 temperatures and special freezers and all t

Question: remember when the distribution of these vaccines was a logistical impossibility due to requiring minus 100 temperatures and special freezers and all that? And then it somehow got "solved" and it hasn't been mentioned since? Was it really all that easy? Or is it possible that millions of people are getting thawed or warmed shots that, due to not following extreme procedures, have lost their potency?

jacquesm 5y ago
That was only a problem in developing countries, and dry ice solved it nicely. That said, the vaccination figures from developing countries are still very low, not in the least because the developed world refuses to pay for it. Though there is some movement on this, it should be painfully obvious by now that as long as there is even one country where this is not under control we can pretty much assume that there will be endless re-runs.
- listenallyall 5y ago
  Seems strange that there was any concern whatsoever, if dry ice was a solution. They were talking extremely low temps. Further, we are in the midst of a major trucking shortage... I would have to assume that the small niche of ultra-cold trucking is even more stressed.
icegreentea2 5y ago
Shipping and storage requirements were relaxed as manufacturers were able to complete additional studies. For example: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-brief-fda-authorizes-longer-time-refrigerator-storage-thawed-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-brie...
- listenallyall 5y ago
  it said they "submitted data to the FDA", that is very vague as to whether it was actually further studies or some other type of evidence/data
  - icegreentea2 5y ago
    Ya, sorry I used "studies" in the shitty industry jargony way where it (as opposed to clinical study) can mean just about any type of experiment. For shelf life and storage, FDA typically very much prefers real-time rather than simulated/accelerated data. For the time interval listed here (1 month at fridge), they certainly would have done a real-time study. I've only worked in diagnostics (and any reagents needed for that), so I don't know if the FDA would require these studies to have an actual human efficacy/safety component, or if these vaccines just passing some sort of QC test (presumably the same screen they use to manufacture) is enough.
maxerickson 5y ago
The Moderna shot had more relaxed requirements from the beginning, and the Pfizer shot could be stored for a month by adding dry ice to the shipping container. There was focus on the requirements, but there were lots of people arguing that they weren't that onerous for wealthy countries (and they aren't particularly onerous).
MattGaiser 5y ago
Logistical impossibility due to a lack of specialized freezers. In Canada at least, the federal government just bought a ton of freezers.
- listenallyall 5y ago
  What about transportation between factory and destination? And if they just bought the freezers, how were all the doses from Jan to July kept cold?
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    Dry ice can work for that. https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/covid_19_vaccine_u_s_distribution_fact_sheet https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/covid_19_vaccine_u_s_... I am using "just" to mean simply rather than recently. For a wealthy government willing to spend, acquiring freezers is not a problem.

jacquesm 5y ago

That was only a problem in developing countries, and dry ice solved it nicely. That said, the vaccination figures from developing countries are still very low, not in the least because the developed world refuses to pay for it. Though there is some movement on this, it should be painfully obvious by now that as long as there is even one country where this is not under control we can pretty much assume that there will be endless re-runs.

listenallyall 5y ago
Seems strange that there was any concern whatsoever, if dry ice was a solution. They were talking extremely low temps. Further, we are in the midst of a major trucking shortage... I would have to assume that the small niche of ultra-cold trucking is even more stressed.

icegreentea2 5y ago

Shipping and storage requirements were relaxed as manufacturers were able to complete additional studies. For example: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-brief-fda-authorizes-longer-time-refrigerator-storage-thawed-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-brie...

listenallyall 5y ago
it said they "submitted data to the FDA", that is very vague as to whether it was actually further studies or some other type of evidence/data
- icegreentea2 5y ago
  Ya, sorry I used "studies" in the shitty industry jargony way where it (as opposed to clinical study) can mean just about any type of experiment. For shelf life and storage, FDA typically very much prefers real-time rather than simulated/accelerated data. For the time interval listed here (1 month at fridge), they certainly would have done a real-time study. I've only worked in diagnostics (and any reagents needed for that), so I don't know if the FDA would require these studies to have an actual human efficacy/safety component, or if these vaccines just passing some sort of QC test (presumably the same screen they use to manufacture) is enough.

maxerickson 5y ago

The Moderna shot had more relaxed requirements from the beginning, and the Pfizer shot could be stored for a month by adding dry ice to the shipping container. There was focus on the requirements, but there were lots of people arguing that they weren't that onerous for wealthy countries (and they aren't particularly onerous).

MattGaiser 5y ago

Logistical impossibility due to a lack of specialized freezers. In Canada at least, the federal government just bought a ton of freezers.

listenallyall 5y ago
What about transportation between factory and destination? And if they just bought the freezers, how were all the doses from Jan to July kept cold?
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  Dry ice can work for that. https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/covid_19_vaccine_u_s_distribution_fact_sheet https://www.pfizer.com/news/hot-topics/covid_19_vaccine_u_s_... I am using "just" to mean simply rather than recently. For a wealthy government willing to spend, acquiring freezers is not a problem.