5 ms·

It's too easy to for Google&Apple to tip the scales. Choice will mostly be an illusion as almost everyone will choose Google or Apples store. You can see it o

by treis 5y ago

It's too easy to for Google&Apple to tip the scales. Choice will mostly be an illusion as almost everyone will choose Google or Apples store. You can see it on Android today.

Valkhyr 5y ago
I don't mind that personally. They can default to their own stores and advertise them, as long as I can sideload anything I want. On Android I do use sideloading for niche applications and for FOSS applications available outside the Play Store (F-Droid). If iOS allowed the same ability to sideload that Android does, that would be a huge step forward for "power"users, irrespective of whether the majority of the population stays with the Apple default.
- noobermin 5y ago
  Right, it would have a huge impact on iOS devices and for their users.
- arrosenberg 5y ago
  It should really work the same way you select a default browser during setup. Even if you can sideload a different option, setting a default to their own property is a classic example of bundling, which is an anticompetitive act.
- btown 5y ago
  For what it's worth, https://altstore.io/ https://altstore.io/ is a relatively-new sideloading system that "just works" for iOS without jailbreaks - you can download .ipa packages however you want, and as long as you're on the same WiFi as a computer running the server, it will re-sign them with a personal key every 7 days. Outside of emulators, though, there's just not much of an ecosystem of high-quality apps for iOS that aren't built to be Apple-approved. But hey - you can bring back Flappy Bird!
  - runawaybottle 5y ago
    I’m not sure who lobbied for this legislation, but I have a gut feeling a company like Facebook is behind some of the money. What a Trojan horse, a government legislated third party Facebook App Store on your IPhone/Android that incentivizes developers to build apps that plug into the FB ecosystem. Lower percentage cut taken by Facebook, with the ultimate caveat - no privacy, all your user data is ours, oh and ads, lots of them. Cheers. Shit, FB didn’t even have to develop their own phone. What a win.
    - drenvuk 5y ago
      At this point the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Let's see if whoever is doing the arm twisting can force Apple onto a path where they don't get to do every single little thing that they want.
      - nemothekid 5y ago
        That's interesting because I have the opposite view - I prefer Apple maintains control so that Facebook doesn't get to do every single thing they want. Facebook is strictly worse and I bemoan a future where FB is given even more data to sell on hundreds of millions of Americans.
        tremon 5y ago
        How about (gasp) the government maintains control so that non-democratic bodies don't get to do every single thing they want?
        baridbelmedar 5y ago
        What government are you referring to? I suspect that not all countries (even western) would love the idea that the US government had that type of control ;)
        Valkhyr 5y ago
        How about designing devices and services such that they are open and cross-compatible and the user is ultimately in control?
Aperocky 5y ago
But does that mean Google can release an iOS app store? I guess the reverse is much easier as Android is a much more open platform.
Silhouette 5y ago
Even if the only effect of a law like this was that you could run a better browser on iOS, that in itself would potentially be game-changing. It is hardly a radical suggestion at this point that Apple might have consistently and knowingly nerfed the only real browser users can run on iOS to reduce competition to native apps bought through its own store.
- Jcowell 5y ago
  Let’s be honest here. If that happens , Chrome wins cause developers interest do not align with consumer interest but money interest. Understand I’m not saying that Developers go for the money, I’m saying the majority of companies that employ developers do and they will target chrome. Firefox by itself is not enough to fend off Chromes “standards” and the only thing ironically stopping Chrome dominance is stagnation not completion.
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    I am all for browser diversity but if there did end up being only one browser almost everyone used I would prefer it to be Chrome than iOS Safari. Everything from security updates to functionality in numerous areas is inferior with Safari and that hurts users and developers alike.
- garyclarke27 5y ago
  Yes forcing Apple to allow alternative Browser Engines and javascript/html/css runtimes such as Electron, would be the quickest and easiest way to help developers introduce some real competition to native apps.
radley 5y ago
> You can see it on Android today. Are there any good third-party Android stores? My (dated) experience is that it's only Amazon and hundreds of pirate sites.
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  Fdroid is ok. Not the best, but it does function.
- jpetso 5y ago
  There is F-Droid, which is a terrible client app but provides (non-Amazon, non-pirate) open source software such as NewPipe, Simple Notes or DavX.
  - altantiprocrast 5y ago
    Foxydroid is a really nice and imo much faster F-Droid frontend https://f-droid.org/en/packages/nya.kitsunyan.foxydroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/nya.kitsunyan.foxydroid/ (not affiliated just a big fan)
    - commoner 5y ago
      There's also Aurora Droid, an F-Droid client developed by the creator of Aurora Store. https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.adroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.adroid/ It's currently being rewritten to match Aurora Store v4's interface.
  - neltnerb 5y ago
    I think that these demands should require the built-in app store to support an interoperable feed to other sources. I think that they do but not clearly enough. I doubt Google would interpret it that way, but that would be the fair way to do it. Make it so that the information is interoperable rather than just not actively disallowing it. Then it can stop being a monopoly.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago

by treis 5y ago

It's too easy to for Google&Apple to tip the scales. Choice will mostly be an illusion as almost everyone will choose Google or Apples store. You can see it on Android today.

Valkhyr 5y ago

I don't mind that personally. They can default to their own stores and advertise them, as long as I can sideload anything I want. On Android I do use sideloading for niche applications and for FOSS applications available outside the Play Store (F-Droid). If iOS allowed the same ability to sideload that Android does, that would be a huge step forward for "power"users, irrespective of whether the majority of the population stays with the Apple default.

noobermin 5y ago
Right, it would have a huge impact on iOS devices and for their users.
arrosenberg 5y ago
It should really work the same way you select a default browser during setup. Even if you can sideload a different option, setting a default to their own property is a classic example of bundling, which is an anticompetitive act.
btown 5y ago
For what it's worth, https://altstore.io/ https://altstore.io/ is a relatively-new sideloading system that "just works" for iOS without jailbreaks - you can download .ipa packages however you want, and as long as you're on the same WiFi as a computer running the server, it will re-sign them with a personal key every 7 days. Outside of emulators, though, there's just not much of an ecosystem of high-quality apps for iOS that aren't built to be Apple-approved. But hey - you can bring back Flappy Bird!
- runawaybottle 5y ago
  I’m not sure who lobbied for this legislation, but I have a gut feeling a company like Facebook is behind some of the money. What a Trojan horse, a government legislated third party Facebook App Store on your IPhone/Android that incentivizes developers to build apps that plug into the FB ecosystem. Lower percentage cut taken by Facebook, with the ultimate caveat - no privacy, all your user data is ours, oh and ads, lots of them. Cheers. Shit, FB didn’t even have to develop their own phone. What a win.
  - drenvuk 5y ago
    At this point the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Let's see if whoever is doing the arm twisting can force Apple onto a path where they don't get to do every single little thing that they want.
    - nemothekid 5y ago
      That's interesting because I have the opposite view - I prefer Apple maintains control so that Facebook doesn't get to do every single thing they want. Facebook is strictly worse and I bemoan a future where FB is given even more data to sell on hundreds of millions of Americans.
      - tremon 5y ago
        How about (gasp) the government maintains control so that non-democratic bodies don't get to do every single thing they want?
        baridbelmedar 5y ago
        What government are you referring to? I suspect that not all countries (even western) would love the idea that the US government had that type of control ;)
        Valkhyr 5y ago
        How about designing devices and services such that they are open and cross-compatible and the user is ultimately in control?

Aperocky 5y ago

But does that mean Google can release an iOS app store? I guess the reverse is much easier as Android is a much more open platform.

Silhouette 5y ago

Even if the only effect of a law like this was that you could run a better browser on iOS, that in itself would potentially be game-changing. It is hardly a radical suggestion at this point that Apple might have consistently and knowingly nerfed the only real browser users can run on iOS to reduce competition to native apps bought through its own store.

Jcowell 5y ago
Let’s be honest here. If that happens , Chrome wins cause developers interest do not align with consumer interest but money interest. Understand I’m not saying that Developers go for the money, I’m saying the majority of companies that employ developers do and they will target chrome. Firefox by itself is not enough to fend off Chromes “standards” and the only thing ironically stopping Chrome dominance is stagnation not completion.
- Silhouette 5y ago
  I am all for browser diversity but if there did end up being only one browser almost everyone used I would prefer it to be Chrome than iOS Safari. Everything from security updates to functionality in numerous areas is inferior with Safari and that hurts users and developers alike.
garyclarke27 5y ago
Yes forcing Apple to allow alternative Browser Engines and javascript/html/css runtimes such as Electron, would be the quickest and easiest way to help developers introduce some real competition to native apps.

radley 5y ago

> You can see it on Android today. Are there any good third-party Android stores? My (dated) experience is that it's only Amazon and hundreds of pirate sites.

_-david-_ 5y ago
Fdroid is ok. Not the best, but it does function.
jpetso 5y ago
There is F-Droid, which is a terrible client app but provides (non-Amazon, non-pirate) open source software such as NewPipe, Simple Notes or DavX.
- altantiprocrast 5y ago
  Foxydroid is a really nice and imo much faster F-Droid frontend https://f-droid.org/en/packages/nya.kitsunyan.foxydroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/nya.kitsunyan.foxydroid/ (not affiliated just a big fan)
  - commoner 5y ago
    There's also Aurora Droid, an F-Droid client developed by the creator of Aurora Store. https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.adroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.adroid/ It's currently being rewritten to match Aurora Store v4's interface.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  I think that these demands should require the built-in app store to support an interoperable feed to other sources. I think that they do but not clearly enough. I doubt Google would interpret it that way, but that would be the fair way to do it. Make it so that the information is interoperable rather than just not actively disallowing it. Then it can stop being a monopoly.
BiteCode_dev 5y ago