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We're not talking about regulating all kinds of waste though; we're talking about regulating (proof-of-work) crypto. And I think that, absolutely, is politicall

by wk_end 5y ago

We're not talking about regulating all kinds of waste though; we're talking about regulating (proof-of-work) crypto. And I think that, absolutely, is politically feasible. As for things like massive trucks and giant TVs - well, steps are (slowly) being taken to regulate the former, at least; think of all those countries that swear up-and-down that all cars sold there will be electric in 10 or 20 years or whatever. But that's an extreme example, and this isn't really a new concept at all: plenty of things are made illegal or economically impractical due to regulations, environmental or otherwise. Giant TVs, though - yeah, those are unlikely to be regulated any time soon. But then, that was the substance of my comment that I sort of feel you failed to engage with: government is absolutely free - via public opinion, some objective metric, or their own whims - to decide what's too wasteful to allow. Giant TVs, probably not. Massive trucks, getting there. Bitcoin? Well, it's not crazy to suggest it, anyway. ETA: also, speaking of political feasibility and carbon taxes - do you think a regressive tax that drives up the price of virtually everything has more popular appeal than a targeted ban on crypto mining? Here in Canada our carbon tax has faced enormous political opposition, as did the one in France.

fleddr 5y ago
Regulating proof-of-work mining is not as simple as it appears. There's an international aspect to it, where some argue that killing crypto this way in one country, may mean missing out on the crypto industry altogether, whilst another country thrives on it. Even just in the US there's now crypto-friendly states, neutral ones, and skeptical ones. Realistically, it will not really be banned, rather a compromise will be found. For mining to use renewables, and ideally stranded renewables. The mining industry is already self-regulating, as they can obviously see the writing on the wall. The fact that you don't expect giant TVs to be banned is quite telling. It's subjective and based on popularity. I get it, people like their TVs. It's considered more important than a giant truck, which few people have. Yet if the goal is to conserve energy, the savings on those TVs would be far more impactful compared to a small amount of massive trucks. So that would mean that we're merely virtue signaling rather than addressing actual usage. Now let's talk ACs. Most Americans can't imagine life without them. But a few decades ago, nobody had one. In most countries, including far hotter ones, many if not most people function without one. So let's ban them. I hope you see my point. Bitcoin mining and big trucks are easy targets but a mere distraction from the heart of the matter. Large scale energy savings inevitably cut into the quality of life of the typical household, and will therefore be unpopular or politically not feasible. As for carbon taxing, it's complicated. I'm from the Netherlands, by the way. Personally, I am a 100% supporter of products having externalities priced in. Including paying staff a living wage, environmental costs, taxation in the country of production and real non-subsidized cost of transport. I truly believe that a number of categories of products are unnaturally and unsustainably cheap. I'm in favor of such system but it will be a cultural shock for most of society. I have many thoughts on potential consequences, but this comment is already getting quite long. I still won't stop the massive trucks though. We have crazy taxation on vehicles as well as fuel over here, yet there will always be people whom can afford it anyway. Our country isn't designed for such large cars yet they are on the rise. I've never seen one in my childhood yet now they appear everywhere. A distraction though. It may anger you, but it's not the heart of the matter.

by wk_end 5y ago

fleddr 5y ago

Regulating proof-of-work mining is not as simple as it appears. There's an international aspect to it, where some argue that killing crypto this way in one country, may mean missing out on the crypto industry altogether, whilst another country thrives on it. Even just in the US there's now crypto-friendly states, neutral ones, and skeptical ones. Realistically, it will not really be banned, rather a compromise will be found. For mining to use renewables, and ideally stranded renewables. The mining industry is already self-regulating, as they can obviously see the writing on the wall. The fact that you don't expect giant TVs to be banned is quite telling. It's subjective and based on popularity. I get it, people like their TVs. It's considered more important than a giant truck, which few people have. Yet if the goal is to conserve energy, the savings on those TVs would be far more impactful compared to a small amount of massive trucks. So that would mean that we're merely virtue signaling rather than addressing actual usage. Now let's talk ACs. Most Americans can't imagine life without them. But a few decades ago, nobody had one. In most countries, including far hotter ones, many if not most people function without one. So let's ban them. I hope you see my point. Bitcoin mining and big trucks are easy targets but a mere distraction from the heart of the matter. Large scale energy savings inevitably cut into the quality of life of the typical household, and will therefore be unpopular or politically not feasible. As for carbon taxing, it's complicated. I'm from the Netherlands, by the way. Personally, I am a 100% supporter of products having externalities priced in. Including paying staff a living wage, environmental costs, taxation in the country of production and real non-subsidized cost of transport. I truly believe that a number of categories of products are unnaturally and unsustainably cheap. I'm in favor of such system but it will be a cultural shock for most of society. I have many thoughts on potential consequences, but this comment is already getting quite long. I still won't stop the massive trucks though. We have crazy taxation on vehicles as well as fuel over here, yet there will always be people whom can afford it anyway. Our country isn't designed for such large cars yet they are on the rise. I've never seen one in my childhood yet now they appear everywhere. A distraction though. It may anger you, but it's not the heart of the matter.