3 ms·

I am pretty sure a large number of people on "your side" (for the record I am on Rand's side on this) want to prevent it We have evidence of this First you s

by syshum 5y ago

I am pretty sure a large number of people on "your side" (for the record I am on Rand's side on this) want to prevent it We have evidence of this First you said "2 weeks to flatten the curve" we did that, and flattened the curve hospitals were saved ... but you were not appeased then you said "a few months to reduce the deaths" we did that and death rate dropped... but you were not appeased Then you said "a few more months to reduce the infection rates" we did that and the infection rate dropped ...but you were not appeased Then you said "a few MORE months to the vaccine" we did that and got the jab ...but you were not appeased We have now come the conclusion that you will accept nothing less than a complete eradication of COVID which by all expert account is impossible. I am unwilling to cede anymore of my freedom to your demands.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
robotresearcher 5y ago
> we did that and got the jab ...but you were not appeased No, not enough of us did that. For measles and polio we did. No one is asking you to wear a measles mask, and measles is very contagious.
- syshum 5y ago
  Thanks for admitting that you are treating this like Polio, and not like the Flu... Treating COVID like polio is foolish, and naive. All indications are COVID will be an annual thing like the flu, chances are mutations will be more transmissible but less deadly (and the data is bearing this out) Chances are we will need annual "booster" or other vaccine just like the flu... We do not mandate people get the annual flu shot, nor should we mandate people get the COVID vaccine. So the question is do you support mask mandates, lock down, and economic destruction for the annual flu? I do not.
  - robotresearcher 5y ago
    The question is how to get the fraction of people vaccinated high enough, so that costly mask+behavior mandates are obviated. Mask wearing and behavior changes last year were massively effective against flu, by accident. Flu is usually much less deadly than COVID. That factor matters in how we treat it. (edit: added data) The 2017-2018 flu season was an historically bad one in the US, resulting in an estimated 30,453 hospitalizations the whole season. The 7 day moving average for new COVID hospital admissions is 89,977 today, and peaked at about 260K in a single week in January.
    - syshum 5y ago
      >>Mask wearing and behavior changes last year were massively effective against flu, by accident. This is assuming facts not in evidence. there are other factors at play 1. Many people avoided seeking medical treatment that normally would have for the flu this year due to covid, this do not mean they were not infected just it was not recorded 2. There are indications that some people testing positive for COVID could have been flu patients, as some PCR testing has been found to show positive for some flu [1] 3. It is unclear if behavior or mask were more effective, personally I believe Behavior modifications where more effective, a lot of which did not need to be mandatory at all and some of it was not at all (such as increased hand washing, no shaking of hands, etc which I believe it pretty effective at flu mitigation as well) >>flu is usually much less deadly than COVID. That factor matters in how we treat it. I did factor that in, The original COVID was much more deadly, the new variants do not seem to be, and new variants + vaccine means I have a pretty low likelyhood that I will have a serious COVID infection thus I really don't feel the need to mask or cede any freedom, regardless of the vaccination status of others around me. >>The 7 day moving average for new COVID hospital admissions is 89,977 today, and peaked at about 260K in a single week in January. Where are you getting this data? Ourworldindata[2] has the US at 60,000 Total People in the hospital for COVID, down from a peak total hospitalization of 120K people This is the TOTAL number of people in the hospital at a given time, not a per day total of new admissions, there is NOT 90,000 new people being admitted to the hospital daily in the us Further the CDC reports that the 2019-2020 Flu season saw 405,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths[3] and 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths for 2018-2019 Flu [4] [1]https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/letters-health-care-providers/potential-false-results-roche-molecular-systems-inc-cobas-sars-cov-2-influenza-test-use-cobas-liat https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/letters-health-care-prov... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations [3]https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html [4]https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html
Nekhrimah 5y ago
> complete eradication of COVID which by all expert account is impossible. Several countries succeeded in elimination of community transmission, some more than once. Sadly, global coordination is just never going to allow for that at scale.

by syshum 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

robotresearcher 5y ago

> we did that and got the jab ...but you were not appeased No, not enough of us did that. For measles and polio we did. No one is asking you to wear a measles mask, and measles is very contagious.

syshum 5y ago
Thanks for admitting that you are treating this like Polio, and not like the Flu... Treating COVID like polio is foolish, and naive. All indications are COVID will be an annual thing like the flu, chances are mutations will be more transmissible but less deadly (and the data is bearing this out) Chances are we will need annual "booster" or other vaccine just like the flu... We do not mandate people get the annual flu shot, nor should we mandate people get the COVID vaccine. So the question is do you support mask mandates, lock down, and economic destruction for the annual flu? I do not.
- robotresearcher 5y ago
  The question is how to get the fraction of people vaccinated high enough, so that costly mask+behavior mandates are obviated. Mask wearing and behavior changes last year were massively effective against flu, by accident. Flu is usually much less deadly than COVID. That factor matters in how we treat it. (edit: added data) The 2017-2018 flu season was an historically bad one in the US, resulting in an estimated 30,453 hospitalizations the whole season. The 7 day moving average for new COVID hospital admissions is 89,977 today, and peaked at about 260K in a single week in January.
  - syshum 5y ago
    >>Mask wearing and behavior changes last year were massively effective against flu, by accident. This is assuming facts not in evidence. there are other factors at play 1. Many people avoided seeking medical treatment that normally would have for the flu this year due to covid, this do not mean they were not infected just it was not recorded 2. There are indications that some people testing positive for COVID could have been flu patients, as some PCR testing has been found to show positive for some flu [1] 3. It is unclear if behavior or mask were more effective, personally I believe Behavior modifications where more effective, a lot of which did not need to be mandatory at all and some of it was not at all (such as increased hand washing, no shaking of hands, etc which I believe it pretty effective at flu mitigation as well) >>flu is usually much less deadly than COVID. That factor matters in how we treat it. I did factor that in, The original COVID was much more deadly, the new variants do not seem to be, and new variants + vaccine means I have a pretty low likelyhood that I will have a serious COVID infection thus I really don't feel the need to mask or cede any freedom, regardless of the vaccination status of others around me. >>The 7 day moving average for new COVID hospital admissions is 89,977 today, and peaked at about 260K in a single week in January. Where are you getting this data? Ourworldindata[2] has the US at 60,000 Total People in the hospital for COVID, down from a peak total hospitalization of 120K people This is the TOTAL number of people in the hospital at a given time, not a per day total of new admissions, there is NOT 90,000 new people being admitted to the hospital daily in the us Further the CDC reports that the 2019-2020 Flu season saw 405,000 hospitalizations and 22,000 deaths[3] and 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths for 2018-2019 Flu [4] [1]https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/letters-health-care-providers/potential-false-results-roche-molecular-systems-inc-cobas-sars-cov-2-influenza-test-use-cobas-liat https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/letters-health-care-prov... [2] https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations [3]https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html [4]https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Nekhrimah 5y ago

> complete eradication of COVID which by all expert account is impossible. Several countries succeeded in elimination of community transmission, some more than once. Sadly, global coordination is just never going to allow for that at scale.