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Oh you mean the same time I graduated into a shitty job market with thousands in college loans? No, I made smart decisions about purchasing a house in a good l

Oh you mean the same time I graduated into a shitty job market with thousands in college loans? No, I made smart decisions about purchasing a house in a good low col area and fixed it up. Honestly, this whole idea that anyone who's achieved some success is just down to luck is pretty disheartening. Do you think this is a good approach to improving your life? I don't see any advantage to thinking this way.

nonameiguess 5y ago
I think it's a perfectly fine approach to life to acknowledge the role played by luck. I don't pretend I'm completely in control and all my success is solely due to my superior grit and intellect (and, of course, even having those traits at all is still just luck). Nonetheless, I've done perfectly fine. My life has improved fairly consistently for about 20 years to the point it is better than I ever reasonably expected it would ever be. So no, I don't think you need to buy into myths to improve your life. By all means, make the smartest moves you can with the hand you're dealt, but you have absolutely no control over what hand you're dealt. If you got lucky, good for you. Plenty of others got lucky and squandered it. I'm not saying don't feel proud of yourself. But don't forget the many people who never even got the chance. You're not better than them and neither am I.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  Oh boy this so much! I'm fully aware of how lucky I've been. Grit and intellect are pretty much down to luck in choosing your parents. It's so easy and so natural to look down on other people. Everybody does it, and the best we can do is try to fight against it by having some humility.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  > superior grit and intellect (and, of course, even having those traits at all is still just luck). I don't think this is true. Sure, it's trivially true that we don't earn the traits we're born with in any way. But it should be equally obvious that people can and do cultivate these same traits deliberately throughout life. People cultivate grit (i.e., discipline, persistence, courage, etc), and everyone has to fulfill whatever innate intellect they were given with knowledge and experience, which don't come for free. There's certainly a lot of luck involved all along the way, but labelling it all "just luck" is a pretty broad stroke is it not? > You're not better than them and neither am I. "Better" is a heavily loaded term. I suspect you're angling for a "worthy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" sort of meaning, which is dangerously close to a strawman. But if "better" is given a more specific and practical "better steward of their resources" meaning, then I assure you there are lots people better than me.
bumby 5y ago
I think you might be catching too much flak on this thread but to add to the discussion: >Oh you mean the same time I graduated into a shitty job market with thousands in college loans? I think this is actually to the same point. Compare what you stated with someone who, say, graduated in the 1960s where they could have a middle class lifestyle without even graduating college, or if they did graduate, without mountains of debt or relatively high home prices. Both points can be true. There can still be paths forward while also acknowledging it can be more difficult. Exceptional people will always find a path to success; that's what makes them exceptional. What worries me is when we (as a society) make it exceedingly difficult for large swaths of people to succeed at achieving something as modest as "middle-class".

nonameiguess 5y ago

I think it's a perfectly fine approach to life to acknowledge the role played by luck. I don't pretend I'm completely in control and all my success is solely due to my superior grit and intellect (and, of course, even having those traits at all is still just luck). Nonetheless, I've done perfectly fine. My life has improved fairly consistently for about 20 years to the point it is better than I ever reasonably expected it would ever be. So no, I don't think you need to buy into myths to improve your life. By all means, make the smartest moves you can with the hand you're dealt, but you have absolutely no control over what hand you're dealt. If you got lucky, good for you. Plenty of others got lucky and squandered it. I'm not saying don't feel proud of yourself. But don't forget the many people who never even got the chance. You're not better than them and neither am I.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago
Oh boy this so much! I'm fully aware of how lucky I've been. Grit and intellect are pretty much down to luck in choosing your parents. It's so easy and so natural to look down on other people. Everybody does it, and the best we can do is try to fight against it by having some humility.
nate_meurer 5y ago
> superior grit and intellect (and, of course, even having those traits at all is still just luck). I don't think this is true. Sure, it's trivially true that we don't earn the traits we're born with in any way. But it should be equally obvious that people can and do cultivate these same traits deliberately throughout life. People cultivate grit (i.e., discipline, persistence, courage, etc), and everyone has to fulfill whatever innate intellect they were given with knowledge and experience, which don't come for free. There's certainly a lot of luck involved all along the way, but labelling it all "just luck" is a pretty broad stroke is it not? > You're not better than them and neither am I. "Better" is a heavily loaded term. I suspect you're angling for a "worthy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" sort of meaning, which is dangerously close to a strawman. But if "better" is given a more specific and practical "better steward of their resources" meaning, then I assure you there are lots people better than me.

bumby 5y ago

I think you might be catching too much flak on this thread but to add to the discussion: >Oh you mean the same time I graduated into a shitty job market with thousands in college loans? I think this is actually to the same point. Compare what you stated with someone who, say, graduated in the 1960s where they could have a middle class lifestyle without even graduating college, or if they did graduate, without mountains of debt or relatively high home prices. Both points can be true. There can still be paths forward while also acknowledging it can be more difficult. Exceptional people will always find a path to success; that's what makes them exceptional. What worries me is when we (as a society) make it exceedingly difficult for large swaths of people to succeed at achieving something as modest as "middle-class".