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Subscription models make sense for something that needs to stay evergreen. Why does a password manager need a subscription? My password should never touch a 3r

Subscription models make sense for something that needs to stay evergreen. Why does a password manager need a subscription? My password should never touch a 3rd party’s server, I don’t need extra features, I don’t need a login, I don’t need long-term or even short-term support. What ongoing development does a password manager have? Is it that buggy from the get-go to need constant updates?

lotsofpulp 5y ago
>Why does a password manager need a subscription? It does not, that is why there is KeePassXC and other alternatives.
- mirkules 5y ago
  Thanks, I haven’t tried that one before.
brianpan 5y ago
> What ongoing development does a password manager have? I shutter to think about just trying to keep the status quo across all those platforms, devices, browser extensions. How often do we have new versions of iOS or macOS? What about Windows, Android, Linux, Chrome OS? I can think of a TON of work without adding a single feature.
- mirkules 5y ago
  Major releases of MacOS and iOS happen once a year. And most of the time they don’t break existing applications (iOS 12 notwithstanding). Almost everything from early iPhone OS to 12, and from 12 onwards worked ok, even with major resolution changes. And the fact that we need to constantly change stuff just for the sake of change is the problem. To add to this: I’m perfectly happy to pay a premium price for software when I need a new version. I did this with Photoshop for years, $399 per copy was perfectly fine for me because I spent that money every 3 or 4 years.
  - robbiep 5y ago
    There are also what I think are reasonable models for providing people with ownership of an app but also being able to charge upgrade fees (for example, TablePlus, Dash, Sublime etc)
  - brianpan 5y ago
    That's the point of this thread. YOU only need a new version every 3-4 years so you don't think there's any work any other time. But you take all those platforms and all those extensions and the result is maintenance by itself is constant work. I'm not talking about change for the sake of change. I'm talking about the work just to keep the features that you have. I have personal projects I'm working on where it feels like all I have time for is just keeping up with security updates, Ubuntu versions, DB version upgrades. Work projects are even worse with SOC2 requirements and the endless stream of CVEs. There's no way a password manager can do nothing for 3-4 years ignoring security vulnerabilities in their dependencies that need to be patched.
    - mirkules 5y ago
      You raise a valid point, and certainly then this product is not right for me due to their pricing and the features I’m paying for but never using (like Android and Ubuntu support). It comes down to what value it provides to me for what I need it to do, which is store and retrieve passwords for me, and sync via wlan. That’s it. Why should I continually pay for Android, Ubuntu or Windows development when I don’t use their app on either of these platforms? And additionally, as a consumer it’s not my responsibility to find a way for a company to fund its product. Saying “development goes on even without you upgrading, so you have to pay a subscription to support that” is kind of a weird argument, isn’t it. Imagine if you had to pay a subscription for using a car because next year a new model will require development and therefore you need to pay for it.
      - sleepybrett 5y ago
        Let's be super clear about 1passwords licensing too. It's per OS. I buy three clients every upgrade windows, ios and mac.
beefjerkins 5y ago
Sure, a local-only password manager doesn't need a subscription, and solutions such as KeePassXC demonstrate this quite well (as a user of it myself!) However, in the case of 1Password it's not just about being a password manager; it's also about syncing passwords between devices, staying on top of (sometimes rapidly!) changing standards between devices and browser extensions, and being aware of the evolving landscape of best security practices.
- mirkules 5y ago
  Maybe I’m just too old-school, thinking that when paying for software it’s yours. Way too often, automatic upgrades silently break my existing software, take away functionality or introduce new bugs. Anyway thanks for showing me KeePassXC, looks like something I’ll be very interested in
- vmladenov 5y ago
  > in the case of 1Password it's not just about being a password manager; it's also about syncing passwords between devices This worked perfectly fine until they “fixed” it by removing Dropbox support, and now are apparently removing iCloud sync too

lotsofpulp 5y ago

>Why does a password manager need a subscription? It does not, that is why there is KeePassXC and other alternatives.

mirkules 5y ago
Thanks, I haven’t tried that one before.

brianpan 5y ago

> What ongoing development does a password manager have? I shutter to think about just trying to keep the status quo across all those platforms, devices, browser extensions. How often do we have new versions of iOS or macOS? What about Windows, Android, Linux, Chrome OS? I can think of a TON of work without adding a single feature.

mirkules 5y ago
Major releases of MacOS and iOS happen once a year. And most of the time they don’t break existing applications (iOS 12 notwithstanding). Almost everything from early iPhone OS to 12, and from 12 onwards worked ok, even with major resolution changes. And the fact that we need to constantly change stuff just for the sake of change is the problem. To add to this: I’m perfectly happy to pay a premium price for software when I need a new version. I did this with Photoshop for years, $399 per copy was perfectly fine for me because I spent that money every 3 or 4 years.
- robbiep 5y ago
  There are also what I think are reasonable models for providing people with ownership of an app but also being able to charge upgrade fees (for example, TablePlus, Dash, Sublime etc)
- brianpan 5y ago
  That's the point of this thread. YOU only need a new version every 3-4 years so you don't think there's any work any other time. But you take all those platforms and all those extensions and the result is maintenance by itself is constant work. I'm not talking about change for the sake of change. I'm talking about the work just to keep the features that you have. I have personal projects I'm working on where it feels like all I have time for is just keeping up with security updates, Ubuntu versions, DB version upgrades. Work projects are even worse with SOC2 requirements and the endless stream of CVEs. There's no way a password manager can do nothing for 3-4 years ignoring security vulnerabilities in their dependencies that need to be patched.
  - mirkules 5y ago
    You raise a valid point, and certainly then this product is not right for me due to their pricing and the features I’m paying for but never using (like Android and Ubuntu support). It comes down to what value it provides to me for what I need it to do, which is store and retrieve passwords for me, and sync via wlan. That’s it. Why should I continually pay for Android, Ubuntu or Windows development when I don’t use their app on either of these platforms? And additionally, as a consumer it’s not my responsibility to find a way for a company to fund its product. Saying “development goes on even without you upgrading, so you have to pay a subscription to support that” is kind of a weird argument, isn’t it. Imagine if you had to pay a subscription for using a car because next year a new model will require development and therefore you need to pay for it.
    - sleepybrett 5y ago
      Let's be super clear about 1passwords licensing too. It's per OS. I buy three clients every upgrade windows, ios and mac.

beefjerkins 5y ago

Sure, a local-only password manager doesn't need a subscription, and solutions such as KeePassXC demonstrate this quite well (as a user of it myself!) However, in the case of 1Password it's not just about being a password manager; it's also about syncing passwords between devices, staying on top of (sometimes rapidly!) changing standards between devices and browser extensions, and being aware of the evolving landscape of best security practices.

mirkules 5y ago
Maybe I’m just too old-school, thinking that when paying for software it’s yours. Way too often, automatic upgrades silently break my existing software, take away functionality or introduce new bugs. Anyway thanks for showing me KeePassXC, looks like something I’ll be very interested in
vmladenov 5y ago
> in the case of 1Password it's not just about being a password manager; it's also about syncing passwords between devices This worked perfectly fine until they “fixed” it by removing Dropbox support, and now are apparently removing iCloud sync too