5 ms·

> if you're not consumed by the idea that you need to live in SF or NY to enjoy your life And yet some people enjoy big cities more than they'd enjoy living in

> if you're not consumed by the idea that you need to live in SF or NY to enjoy your life And yet some people enjoy big cities more than they'd enjoy living in a small town and it is not a moral failing or a sign of stupidity or weakness. Many people enjoy the multiculturalism found in cities, and many immigrants or minorities feel out of place in small towns while major cities offer them the opportunity to connect with people like themselves. Obviously owning a big residence in a city will never be affordable but as a society we should ensure that people can affordably live where it makes sense for them.

subsubzero 5y ago
Why bring multiculturalism into it, or minorities feeling out of place? the parent comment never mentioned it, and I have been to small towns that were extremely welcoming to all groups. I agree with his statement, why live somewhere where housing is astronomically expensive, unless you enjoy it so much that living somewhere else would bring you sheer misery, be prepared to either rent forever or hustle your life away to afford that lifestyle.
- mc32 5y ago
  Having a preference for multiculturalism is something mostly expressed in the west. People in Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Peru, India, etc. Live just fine with it without it. They don’t feel inadequate living in a city or village that is monocultural. Neither is right or wrong. Cities develop over decades and they will have their unique histories. But seldom do people in other places say, oh my town is so monocultural, I wish it were a stew of cultures. No, mostly they are okay with their towns character. Interestingly besides Singapore, we have Beirut, Teheran, Khartoum, Baghdad which have lost multiculturalism over time, but those are mostly due to civil strife caused in part by the different cultures at violent odds with each other.
  - nemo 5y ago
    Really, I would suggest you read up about Peru. They're one of the more multicultural countries in the Americas, they've got multiculturalism enshrined in their constitution.
    - mc32 5y ago
      They have indigenous, mixed race, Japanese and others, that’s not in dispute. What I’m saying is I’m sure in the hinterlands the locals aren’t saying “oh, woe is us, we aren’t multicultural like those folks in Lima” Multiculturalism can be good, it can be neutral or like Beirut or Baghdad it can lead to violence. What I’m saying is most people overseas are totally okay with it, with few exceptions, but they don’t bemoan it’s absence.
  - verall 5y ago
    Cities have always collected people from further outside the local area than suburban or rural areas. If you have lived in cities with a monoculture and cities with significant minorities, the multicultural city has more dynamic options for food, drink, music, everything. New York is one of the only places in the world you could probably walk from fantastic bagels to great Italian food to a real HK-style diner. This is a great privilege that residents of these cities value highly.
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  Because that is one thing i know that people mention a lot in moving to cities. Maybe part of it is american perspective. Is there something WRONG with talking about multiculturalism? eg. gay people leaving their small towns that don't have other gays, immigrants moving to a city full of people of their nationality (eg. "china towns, little italy"). No amount of "is renting forever not bad?" will rectify this advantage of a city for many people.
TrackerFF 5y ago
Living in a big city isn't much of a problem, only real difference is that almost all your equity will be in your house / real-estate assets. And that can be just fine - in certain areas the real-estate market has performed as well as the stock market, for the past 20-30 years. But it's difficult to retire on that - unless you decide to sell your house, and move somewhere cheap.
wonderwonder 5y ago
honestly if they enjoy it that's their call and they make the choice to live in a place that is not affordable. If they struggle due to that decision that is on them. If they could move somewhere else and live in a much more comfortable financial position the long term outcome is their choice. I am not denigrating their decision just saying that it is their decision. "we should ensure that people can affordably live where it makes sense for them" It makes sense for people to live in an area they can afford, not where they decide they should be able to afford. Its simple economics, supply and demand. "Many people enjoy the multiculturalism found in cities, and many immigrants or minorities feel out of place in small towns while major cities offer them the opportunity to connect with people like themselves". Not to be rude, but so what? I want to live in Napa Valley but I cant afford it, is it society's job to get me an affordable house there?
- jjeaff 5y ago
  The calculus is a bit more complicated than you make it out to be. People have to live where they can afford to live -and- get a job. Many lcol areas do not have many jobs. Especially if you have an expensive education that you are trying to pay off. Some people might be able to take a pay cut and move somewhere cheap and come out ahead. But those options don't always exist. If you have $200k in student loans and a degree in biotechnology, good luck finding a job within 100 miles of cheap housing. More remote work opportunities might change this, but at least in the past, those were very rare. Housing is expensive in hcol areas for a reason. It's because there are lots of good paying jobs nearby. There is also a reason some areas have very cheap housing.
  - wonderwonder 5y ago
    You make good points but the comment I was responding to was very focused on people choosing to live somewhere based on what they like regarding the social atmosphere and feelings as opposed to economic concerns.

subsubzero 5y ago

Why bring multiculturalism into it, or minorities feeling out of place? the parent comment never mentioned it, and I have been to small towns that were extremely welcoming to all groups. I agree with his statement, why live somewhere where housing is astronomically expensive, unless you enjoy it so much that living somewhere else would bring you sheer misery, be prepared to either rent forever or hustle your life away to afford that lifestyle.

mc32 5y ago
Having a preference for multiculturalism is something mostly expressed in the west. People in Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Peru, India, etc. Live just fine with it without it. They don’t feel inadequate living in a city or village that is monocultural. Neither is right or wrong. Cities develop over decades and they will have their unique histories. But seldom do people in other places say, oh my town is so monocultural, I wish it were a stew of cultures. No, mostly they are okay with their towns character. Interestingly besides Singapore, we have Beirut, Teheran, Khartoum, Baghdad which have lost multiculturalism over time, but those are mostly due to civil strife caused in part by the different cultures at violent odds with each other.
- nemo 5y ago
  Really, I would suggest you read up about Peru. They're one of the more multicultural countries in the Americas, they've got multiculturalism enshrined in their constitution.
  - mc32 5y ago
    They have indigenous, mixed race, Japanese and others, that’s not in dispute. What I’m saying is I’m sure in the hinterlands the locals aren’t saying “oh, woe is us, we aren’t multicultural like those folks in Lima” Multiculturalism can be good, it can be neutral or like Beirut or Baghdad it can lead to violence. What I’m saying is most people overseas are totally okay with it, with few exceptions, but they don’t bemoan it’s absence.
- verall 5y ago
  Cities have always collected people from further outside the local area than suburban or rural areas. If you have lived in cities with a monoculture and cities with significant minorities, the multicultural city has more dynamic options for food, drink, music, everything. New York is one of the only places in the world you could probably walk from fantastic bagels to great Italian food to a real HK-style diner. This is a great privilege that residents of these cities value highly.
vineyardmike 5y ago
Because that is one thing i know that people mention a lot in moving to cities. Maybe part of it is american perspective. Is there something WRONG with talking about multiculturalism? eg. gay people leaving their small towns that don't have other gays, immigrants moving to a city full of people of their nationality (eg. "china towns, little italy"). No amount of "is renting forever not bad?" will rectify this advantage of a city for many people.

TrackerFF 5y ago

Living in a big city isn't much of a problem, only real difference is that almost all your equity will be in your house / real-estate assets. And that can be just fine - in certain areas the real-estate market has performed as well as the stock market, for the past 20-30 years. But it's difficult to retire on that - unless you decide to sell your house, and move somewhere cheap.

wonderwonder 5y ago

honestly if they enjoy it that's their call and they make the choice to live in a place that is not affordable. If they struggle due to that decision that is on them. If they could move somewhere else and live in a much more comfortable financial position the long term outcome is their choice. I am not denigrating their decision just saying that it is their decision. "we should ensure that people can affordably live where it makes sense for them" It makes sense for people to live in an area they can afford, not where they decide they should be able to afford. Its simple economics, supply and demand. "Many people enjoy the multiculturalism found in cities, and many immigrants or minorities feel out of place in small towns while major cities offer them the opportunity to connect with people like themselves". Not to be rude, but so what? I want to live in Napa Valley but I cant afford it, is it society's job to get me an affordable house there?

jjeaff 5y ago
The calculus is a bit more complicated than you make it out to be. People have to live where they can afford to live -and- get a job. Many lcol areas do not have many jobs. Especially if you have an expensive education that you are trying to pay off. Some people might be able to take a pay cut and move somewhere cheap and come out ahead. But those options don't always exist. If you have $200k in student loans and a degree in biotechnology, good luck finding a job within 100 miles of cheap housing. More remote work opportunities might change this, but at least in the past, those were very rare. Housing is expensive in hcol areas for a reason. It's because there are lots of good paying jobs nearby. There is also a reason some areas have very cheap housing.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  You make good points but the comment I was responding to was very focused on people choosing to live somewhere based on what they like regarding the social atmosphere and feelings as opposed to economic concerns.