4 ms·

Context is hugely important, and equally important is not to get sucked in by the HN echo chamber - that is, consider the MS of _now_ as opposed to that of 15 y

Context is hugely important, and equally important is not to get sucked in by the HN echo chamber - that is, consider the MS of _now_ as opposed to that of 15 years ago which HN likes to bash (and give a free pass to other companies doing nefarious things). The FB example is considering the FB of _now_ and not 15 years ago. In terms of the biggest companies in the sector, MS has been doing much more for developers and developer productivity than others. At the same time it's not a monolith and so you should not expect boyscout behavior either. Privacy is a concern, and the onus is on you the user to ensure that you remain in control of your data. When using a service (any service), the answer is to always be ready to bail at a moment's notice. That means using source control and not tying yourself to a specific ecosystem.

leppr 5y ago
The MS that's killing their own single most popular product, Windows, with anti-user features, is the MS of now. Releasing VS code and WSL doesn't redeem their sins.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  is this not another example of the 'HN echo chamber'? Is Windows market share budging? Windows currently is by far not the worst iteration of the OS and nobody gives a crap about anti-user features which everyone has had to deal with for literally decades
  - scraptor 5y ago
    The fact that microsoft's user hostile moves haven't affected windows' market share does very little to reassure people that they won't pull similar shit with any other product.
  - jorams 5y ago
    > nobody gives a crap about anti-user features which everyone has had to deal with for literally decades The one thing that used to set Microsoft apart from the likes of Google and Facebook was that their main product, Windows, was not anti-user. No matter what you thought about the OS or Microsoft's business practices, it was a paid piece of software that worked for the user. Windows now is filled with user-hostile features and it works for MS instead. And they don't even grant us the courtesy of giving it away for free. Market share or the fact that the public at large isn't punishing them for it doesn't mean anything. It was already clear that most people are willing to walk headfirst into a dystopia.
    - puchatek 5y ago
      If i sum all the instances of Ubuntu but doing what i wanted it to do and compare that to the dystopia that windows theoretically exposes me to I'm not sure what's better tbh. But if you want to play modern games on your PC then the choice of OS has been made for you.
kbenson 5y ago
By the same reasoning, since we're talking about data collection, and that data doesn't just disappear in most cases, consider the MS, FB and Google of 15 years in the future. Given the changes already mentioned, what can we reliably say about them, other than that massive change is at least possible, and possibly even likely? This is why I don't like Google collecting data on me now. Not because I don't trust them now, I for the most part still think them trustworthy, but 15 years is a long time and there's no way I can intelligently trust that they will act in a certain way 15 years from now, given the available information at my disposal. And that's with a company that I think is heavily incentivized monetarily and has a strong employee culture of keeping data private and in-house. Until there are better laws protecting my data or a clear legal relationship with me and an entity with regards to my data, I think the only prudent course of action is to keep as much information about me as possible out of their and others hands.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
> consider the MS of _now_ Not sure if that's supposed to be an argument for using/trusting MS. The levels of user and privacy hostility they went to (and are continuously going to) with Windows 10/11 makes me see this as a strong argument against.

leppr 5y ago

The MS that's killing their own single most popular product, Windows, with anti-user features, is the MS of now. Releasing VS code and WSL doesn't redeem their sins.

Barrin92 5y ago
is this not another example of the 'HN echo chamber'? Is Windows market share budging? Windows currently is by far not the worst iteration of the OS and nobody gives a crap about anti-user features which everyone has had to deal with for literally decades
- scraptor 5y ago
  The fact that microsoft's user hostile moves haven't affected windows' market share does very little to reassure people that they won't pull similar shit with any other product.
- jorams 5y ago
  > nobody gives a crap about anti-user features which everyone has had to deal with for literally decades The one thing that used to set Microsoft apart from the likes of Google and Facebook was that their main product, Windows, was not anti-user. No matter what you thought about the OS or Microsoft's business practices, it was a paid piece of software that worked for the user. Windows now is filled with user-hostile features and it works for MS instead. And they don't even grant us the courtesy of giving it away for free. Market share or the fact that the public at large isn't punishing them for it doesn't mean anything. It was already clear that most people are willing to walk headfirst into a dystopia.
  - puchatek 5y ago
    If i sum all the instances of Ubuntu but doing what i wanted it to do and compare that to the dystopia that windows theoretically exposes me to I'm not sure what's better tbh. But if you want to play modern games on your PC then the choice of OS has been made for you.

kbenson 5y ago

By the same reasoning, since we're talking about data collection, and that data doesn't just disappear in most cases, consider the MS, FB and Google of 15 years in the future. Given the changes already mentioned, what can we reliably say about them, other than that massive change is at least possible, and possibly even likely? This is why I don't like Google collecting data on me now. Not because I don't trust them now, I for the most part still think them trustworthy, but 15 years is a long time and there's no way I can intelligently trust that they will act in a certain way 15 years from now, given the available information at my disposal. And that's with a company that I think is heavily incentivized monetarily and has a strong employee culture of keeping data private and in-house. Until there are better laws protecting my data or a clear legal relationship with me and an entity with regards to my data, I think the only prudent course of action is to keep as much information about me as possible out of their and others hands.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

> consider the MS of _now_ Not sure if that's supposed to be an argument for using/trusting MS. The levels of user and privacy hostility they went to (and are continuously going to) with Windows 10/11 makes me see this as a strong argument against.