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In an era that should have equal opportunity a non-issue, we're move straight into the opposite direction. Aubrey de Gray may be canceled. But the the most sali

In an era that should have equal opportunity a non-issue, we're move straight into the opposite direction. Aubrey de Gray may be canceled. But the the most salient lesson here? Don't mentor young women, especially if they're remotely attractive. It's far from being worth the risk. You think I'm exaggerating? What could kill a successful career these days? If you'll excuse me a flippant comparison, even a double digit chance of having caused Covid isn't doing it. But an accusation of misconduct years ago can. Just ponder the odds a bit. So what would motivate somebody to risk this? "Just don't be a creep"? Shit, if you think you can interact a couple of years with a pretty woman and are 100% certain you'll never flirt, you're... I was about to say "a better man than I", but on second thought, that's inhuman. Not the "not flirt" part, plenty of men succeed. But the being sure you won't, not with multiple women, over many years. I'm giving myself much better lifetime odds of not crashing my motorcycle. So again... what's to gain for a successful professional in academia or business, to work with and mentor young women, when it's literally the only major risk on one's career? There are enough bright young men that are much safer.

KittenInABox 5y ago
> Shit, if you think you can interact a couple of years with a pretty woman and are 100% certain you'll never flirt, you're... I was about to say "a better man than I", but on second thought, that's inhuman. Excuse me? In this situation you're claiming you think it's inhuman not to see a minor as an object of sexual attraction?
- pjscott 5y ago
  Moral arguments aside, there's an interesting empirical question here: how many straight men actually feel no attraction to (pubescent) teen girls? That sounds like a set of preferences that would have a hard time evolving, and one that would have been seen as fairly odd in most historical periods I know of.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - KittenInABox 5y ago
    I just think it's bizarre to describe not being sexually attracted to minors as inhuman. That seems to imply the poster believes all humans cannot resist flirting with minors due to the power of sexual attraction. To minors. This is just a very bizarre take.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > [H]ow many straight men actually feel no attraction to (pubescent) teen girls? I've long found much younger women to be ever less of a sexual turn-on. When I was fifty, it felt like "anything under thirty-five is pedophilia"; now (at 57) that limit is probably somewhere around forty. Sure, I could still see myself hugging some nubile sixteen-year-old -- just like I could a boy the same age, namely in a comforting "There, there, dear toddler, did you hurt your knee? We'll put a band-aid on it" way. (Though I probably wouldn't actually do that either, knowing how it would likely be construed.) Dunno if this is simply due to diminishing testosterone, or (feels just as likely to me), if you want to get into evolutionary psychology: parenthood. Maybe we've evolved to be programmed to, after a certain age, not so much constantly strive to procreate, but to take care of the offspring we and others have already set into the world? But maybe if you haven't already done that, the drive to procreate isn't replaced by one to nurture. (Hm, does anybody know if the guy has kids?)
- radu_floricica 5y ago
  Funny as you're twisting what I said. I'm really tempted to wonder if it's because of culture war, or your subconscious feels a bit guilty. Probably culture war. I called inhuman being certain that you'll never randomly flirting with any young women you're working with, over many years. Not exactly what you're saying, is it? Also for the record, most 17 years old are attractive. They're not dateable if you're older, not relationship material, illegal to have sex with in certain legislation, a bad idea to in most cases and so on. But attractive? Why wouldn't they be? Ah, because you called them "minors". I'm sorry for you, if you really live in that world. Edit: should have probably used a less harsh tone. Sorry. I'll blame it on being misinterpreted so badly, but still.
  - KittenInABox 5y ago
    In this specific context it's about someone sending a sexual message to a minor. There's nothing inhuman about not doing that, and excusing it as something all straight men do when around women is bizarre.
    - radu_floricica 5y ago
      Back to the motorcycle metaphor. It's about risk management. You don't go out riding your bike expecting to fall. But you wear your helmet and take other measures because you also don't expect to never fall over 10 years of riding. What I'm saying is: if the risk of mentoring young women is a sudden career end (possibly the greatest such risk), men will start taking it into consideration. Some will just be extra careful around women. Some will just decide it's not worth it. Also, there's another thing I wanted so say from the beginning. People keep throwing around ideas like "you should never date people you're in a position of power over". Sure, when that position is that of a teacher, (foster) parent or coach, I totally agree it's a bad idea, most of the time. But if, like Aubrey, you're at the top of your professional domain... who exactly are you going to date? You're working, talking and socializing with people in your professional area 99% of the time. Yeah, you should pay extra care, but in the end you'll still end up dating in the same pool.
      - deleted 5y ago
Peritract 5y ago
> Don't mentor young women, especially if they're remotely attractive. It's far from being worth the risk. Anyone with this attitude shouldn't be mentoring in the first place. It's really not hard to stay on the right side of the line and not hit on someone when you're in a position of power over them. A vast number of people manage this every day with no effort whatsoever. If you really, genuinely feel that the only way for you to avoid misconduct allegations is to avoid interacting with women entirely, then you need to seriously re-evaluate your behaviour.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > Anyone with this attitude shouldn't be mentoring in the first place. Nah, you can mentor young women just fine. The key is to always follow the Mike Pence rule. No reason not to, given a professional context.
  - radu_floricica 5y ago
    Mike Pence was an outlier at the time. He'll slowly become the median. And once it does... people prefer to work with people they can have lunch with.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      So you're saying young and/or attractive women won't even get internships, because their prospective mentors want to avoid the risk of being accused / don't want to work around around someone they'll have to be on a "Mike Pence behaviour" with? Sure, that's a simple solution for the mentors-in-spe, but seems a bit of a shitty deal for the women.

KittenInABox 5y ago

> Shit, if you think you can interact a couple of years with a pretty woman and are 100% certain you'll never flirt, you're... I was about to say "a better man than I", but on second thought, that's inhuman. Excuse me? In this situation you're claiming you think it's inhuman not to see a minor as an object of sexual attraction?

pjscott 5y ago
Moral arguments aside, there's an interesting empirical question here: how many straight men actually feel no attraction to (pubescent) teen girls? That sounds like a set of preferences that would have a hard time evolving, and one that would have been seen as fairly odd in most historical periods I know of.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- KittenInABox 5y ago
  I just think it's bizarre to describe not being sexually attracted to minors as inhuman. That seems to imply the poster believes all humans cannot resist flirting with minors due to the power of sexual attraction. To minors. This is just a very bizarre take.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > [H]ow many straight men actually feel no attraction to (pubescent) teen girls? I've long found much younger women to be ever less of a sexual turn-on. When I was fifty, it felt like "anything under thirty-five is pedophilia"; now (at 57) that limit is probably somewhere around forty. Sure, I could still see myself hugging some nubile sixteen-year-old -- just like I could a boy the same age, namely in a comforting "There, there, dear toddler, did you hurt your knee? We'll put a band-aid on it" way. (Though I probably wouldn't actually do that either, knowing how it would likely be construed.) Dunno if this is simply due to diminishing testosterone, or (feels just as likely to me), if you want to get into evolutionary psychology: parenthood. Maybe we've evolved to be programmed to, after a certain age, not so much constantly strive to procreate, but to take care of the offspring we and others have already set into the world? But maybe if you haven't already done that, the drive to procreate isn't replaced by one to nurture. (Hm, does anybody know if the guy has kids?)
radu_floricica 5y ago
Funny as you're twisting what I said. I'm really tempted to wonder if it's because of culture war, or your subconscious feels a bit guilty. Probably culture war. I called inhuman being certain that you'll never randomly flirting with any young women you're working with, over many years. Not exactly what you're saying, is it? Also for the record, most 17 years old are attractive. They're not dateable if you're older, not relationship material, illegal to have sex with in certain legislation, a bad idea to in most cases and so on. But attractive? Why wouldn't they be? Ah, because you called them "minors". I'm sorry for you, if you really live in that world. Edit: should have probably used a less harsh tone. Sorry. I'll blame it on being misinterpreted so badly, but still.
- KittenInABox 5y ago
  In this specific context it's about someone sending a sexual message to a minor. There's nothing inhuman about not doing that, and excusing it as something all straight men do when around women is bizarre.
  - radu_floricica 5y ago
    Back to the motorcycle metaphor. It's about risk management. You don't go out riding your bike expecting to fall. But you wear your helmet and take other measures because you also don't expect to never fall over 10 years of riding. What I'm saying is: if the risk of mentoring young women is a sudden career end (possibly the greatest such risk), men will start taking it into consideration. Some will just be extra careful around women. Some will just decide it's not worth it. Also, there's another thing I wanted so say from the beginning. People keep throwing around ideas like "you should never date people you're in a position of power over". Sure, when that position is that of a teacher, (foster) parent or coach, I totally agree it's a bad idea, most of the time. But if, like Aubrey, you're at the top of your professional domain... who exactly are you going to date? You're working, talking and socializing with people in your professional area 99% of the time. Yeah, you should pay extra care, but in the end you'll still end up dating in the same pool.
    - deleted 5y ago

Peritract 5y ago

> Don't mentor young women, especially if they're remotely attractive. It's far from being worth the risk. Anyone with this attitude shouldn't be mentoring in the first place. It's really not hard to stay on the right side of the line and not hit on someone when you're in a position of power over them. A vast number of people manage this every day with no effort whatsoever. If you really, genuinely feel that the only way for you to avoid misconduct allegations is to avoid interacting with women entirely, then you need to seriously re-evaluate your behaviour.

zozbot234 5y ago
> Anyone with this attitude shouldn't be mentoring in the first place. Nah, you can mentor young women just fine. The key is to always follow the Mike Pence rule. No reason not to, given a professional context.
- radu_floricica 5y ago
  Mike Pence was an outlier at the time. He'll slowly become the median. And once it does... people prefer to work with people they can have lunch with.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    So you're saying young and/or attractive women won't even get internships, because their prospective mentors want to avoid the risk of being accused / don't want to work around around someone they'll have to be on a "Mike Pence behaviour" with? Sure, that's a simple solution for the mentors-in-spe, but seems a bit of a shitty deal for the women.