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You’re patting yourself on the back for not selling a buggy app to people? That's a completely different situation than that in the story at hand. Airbnb worked

You’re patting yourself on the back for not selling a buggy app to people? That's a completely different situation than that in the story at hand. Airbnb worked precisely like it was supposed to—there were no bugs. It’s just that Airbnb is in no way supposed to prevent things like this from happening. If you do harm Again, you’re not addressing the simple fact that you’re working from the assumption that Airbnb itself did harm here. They simply didn’t. Doing the right thing is more important than making money. Clearly Airbnb does not believe that doing so would be ‘doing the right thing.’ You’re simply calling them evil instead of recognizing that they have a different—and quite defensible—point of view concerning their responsibility.

danilocampos 15y ago
> there were no bugs. The utter destruction of your home at the hands of a service that aims to help you monetize it is ipso facto a bug. Intent: create value. Result: destruction of value. Bug! It would be like a roach trap that helped roaches breed instead of killing them. It's pretty simple. You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms. They failed in that task. If they want to be the "Ebay of spaces" then they need to provide for some basic level of safety and security. It's okay that you and I have different value systems. They're incompatible, so we won't ever work together.
- codyrobbins 15y ago
  The utter destruction of your home at the hands of a service that aims to help you monetize it is ipso facto a bug. Again, Airbnb didn’t destroy her home. Are you under the impression that someone from Airbnb itself was the one staying at her house? Intent: create value. Result: destruction of value. Bug! You’re basically defining what you want the responsibilities of Airbnb’s service to be and then faulting them according to those responsibilities. But those are not Airbnb’s responsibilities. Again, Airbnb doesn’t claim to prevent things like this, therefore it’s not a bug. If they want to be the "Ebay of spaces" then they need to provide for some basic level of safety and security No they don’t. There will be business consequences for not doing so, but they don’t have to. They can define their service to be whatever they want it to be. As it currently stands, their service is not meant to prevent this from happening. They're incompatible, so we won't ever work together. This came through loud and clear the first time you patronizingly said it.
  - danilocampos 15y ago
    Conveniently, you fail to address the point upon which this whole issue is predicated: "You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms." No one thinks anyone from Airbnb blew up her home, dude. I'm not paid well enough to know if this meets the standard of tortious negligence. Yet it was negligence. Had she not used the service, she'd be fine now. And, I mean, if you've got such a boner for the business side of this, in what universe can you trust a service like Airbnb now? You can't vet people until you're locked in, you have no recourse if you get screwed. This is a business problem, without the morality of hey, it's a good idea not to bring harm into people's lives.
    - codyrobbins 15y ago
      Well, you haven’t addressed any of my points, but that’s fine. To answer your question, just because the transaction was consummated doesn’t mean she had to let the guy into her house. If the dude was suspicious or ungoogleable, she could have called Airbnb and explained the situation or she could have simply not left her key. Instead she just got on an airplane without thinking about it. That’s not Airbnb’s fault. And you’ve just illustrated my point perfectly: if she hadn’t used the service, she would be fine now. But she used the service of her own volition; nobody forced her to; and she made the decision herself. Airbnb might have made the gun the guys used to trash her apartment with, but Airbnb isn’t the one that fired it: she pulled the trigger. Again, the people who trashed her apartment committed the crime here, though. This is a business problem I never said it wasn’t a business problem—that’s exactly what it is. But it’s not an issue of morality. in what universe can you trust a service like Airbnb now? I would never in a million years use Airbnb. Why would I leave a complete stranger alone in my house so that they could trash it and go through my things? You realize how insane that is, when evaluated outside the reality distortion field of the startup craze we’re in right now, right? I think the genesis for your arguments is your desire to live in a world where you can trust a service like Airbnb. But if you just think about it for five seconds you realize anyone could do this and Airbnb in no way prevents it from happening. Just because Y Combinator funded it doesn’t mean it’s magical.

danilocampos 15y ago

> there were no bugs. The utter destruction of your home at the hands of a service that aims to help you monetize it is ipso facto a bug. Intent: create value. Result: destruction of value. Bug! It would be like a roach trap that helped roaches breed instead of killing them. It's pretty simple. You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms. They failed in that task. If they want to be the "Ebay of spaces" then they need to provide for some basic level of safety and security. It's okay that you and I have different value systems. They're incompatible, so we won't ever work together.

codyrobbins 15y ago
The utter destruction of your home at the hands of a service that aims to help you monetize it is ipso facto a bug. Again, Airbnb didn’t destroy her home. Are you under the impression that someone from Airbnb itself was the one staying at her house? Intent: create value. Result: destruction of value. Bug! You’re basically defining what you want the responsibilities of Airbnb’s service to be and then faulting them according to those responsibilities. But those are not Airbnb’s responsibilities. Again, Airbnb doesn’t claim to prevent things like this, therefore it’s not a bug. If they want to be the "Ebay of spaces" then they need to provide for some basic level of safety and security No they don’t. There will be business consequences for not doing so, but they don’t have to. They can define their service to be whatever they want it to be. As it currently stands, their service is not meant to prevent this from happening. They're incompatible, so we won't ever work together. This came through loud and clear the first time you patronizingly said it.
- danilocampos 15y ago
  Conveniently, you fail to address the point upon which this whole issue is predicated: "You can't talk to guests until the transaction is consummated. If that's so, it's on Airbnb to make sure that they're not sending a dangerous creep into your arms." No one thinks anyone from Airbnb blew up her home, dude. I'm not paid well enough to know if this meets the standard of tortious negligence. Yet it was negligence. Had she not used the service, she'd be fine now. And, I mean, if you've got such a boner for the business side of this, in what universe can you trust a service like Airbnb now? You can't vet people until you're locked in, you have no recourse if you get screwed. This is a business problem, without the morality of hey, it's a good idea not to bring harm into people's lives.
  - codyrobbins 15y ago
    Well, you haven’t addressed any of my points, but that’s fine. To answer your question, just because the transaction was consummated doesn’t mean she had to let the guy into her house. If the dude was suspicious or ungoogleable, she could have called Airbnb and explained the situation or she could have simply not left her key. Instead she just got on an airplane without thinking about it. That’s not Airbnb’s fault. And you’ve just illustrated my point perfectly: if she hadn’t used the service, she would be fine now. But she used the service of her own volition; nobody forced her to; and she made the decision herself. Airbnb might have made the gun the guys used to trash her apartment with, but Airbnb isn’t the one that fired it: she pulled the trigger. Again, the people who trashed her apartment committed the crime here, though. This is a business problem I never said it wasn’t a business problem—that’s exactly what it is. But it’s not an issue of morality. in what universe can you trust a service like Airbnb now? I would never in a million years use Airbnb. Why would I leave a complete stranger alone in my house so that they could trash it and go through my things? You realize how insane that is, when evaluated outside the reality distortion field of the startup craze we’re in right now, right? I think the genesis for your arguments is your desire to live in a world where you can trust a service like Airbnb. But if you just think about it for five seconds you realize anyone could do this and Airbnb in no way prevents it from happening. Just because Y Combinator funded it doesn’t mean it’s magical.