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I fully agree, but - and someone please correct me if I'm wrong - I was under the impression that this is essentially out of Netflix's hands. It just depends on

I fully agree, but - and someone please correct me if I'm wrong - I was under the impression that this is essentially out of Netflix's hands. It just depends on the terms of the license that's granted, right? And/or is it a scenario where in some cases Netflix could perhaps pay more to get wider/global airing rights, but they can't justify the additional cost based on the viewership numbers they expect for that piece of content in those additional countries/regions? By that same token, I wouldn't be surprised if lawyers have been breathing down their neck for years trying to pressure them to crack down on region lock-bypassing VPNs, and perhaps even threatening legal action against them. (Of course, that's not justification for blocking residential IP addresses as VPNs when there are non-VPN users behind those IP addresses. Just wanted to point out that the blocking policy is probably something they have to do rather than something they want to do.)

socialist_coder 5y ago
Why can't Netflix just allow people to buy another subscription for a new country? I wouldn't mind paying extra to unlock additional content from another country.
- forrestthewoods 5y ago
  Because the person who owns the content sold exclusive distribution rights in that country to another distributor.
  - socialist_coder 5y ago
    But Netflix also has an agreement with whoever owns distribution rights in the other country though... that's why the VPN trick works. Just let me pay extra for the other country, what would be the problem there?
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I would assume the content owners are demanding the Netflix to stop the VPN trick. I would assume the distributors in other countries are telling content owners they will not pay a certain price if Netflix is allowing people to use VPNs.
    - anotherman554 5y ago
      Your suggestion makes "common sense" but probably would cause legal issues. Suppose you are Canadian. Netflix has permission to sell Americans "Media Package A" and Canadians "Media Package B". They don't have permission to sell Canadians "Media Package A". You are saying "just let me buy both" but Netflix does not have permission from media companies to sell you both.
  - eptcyka 5y ago
    Ok, but why can't netflix apply the geo restrictions based on the payment and not the incoming IP address? I'd prefer to use a VPN for all of my traffic, and I'll gladly stay region locked to the region I reside in. But forcing me to go outside the VPN is something I'd rather not do.
    - meowface 5y ago
      True, that's a good point. Has it been confirmed that they're just blanket-blocking VPN IPs rather than specifically blocking cases of a customer's region shifting/not matching their registration details? If the VPN node's public IP matches the country in the subscriber's registration details, then it seems pretty unfair that they'd still restrict their account when accessed from that VPN IP. But I suppose from a technical standpoint it's probably far simpler for them to just find VPN IPs/subnets, add them to a database, and restrict content for any account accessed from any of those IPs, regardless of the account, IP, or content regions.
      - nyuszika7h 5y ago
        Yes, they block known VPN IPs even if it matches the customer’s home country. If a VPN IP is detected, only globally licensed content will be visible.
    - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
      The copyright applies to a specific viewing of a movie, not the purchase of a license. They can't enable their users to break license or they'll loose their right to distribute content.
  - rodgerd 5y ago
    Yep. Paramount announced Paramount Plus in New Zealand and Australia. Then the failing pay TV monopoly paid up a bunch of money to make the content exclusive to their terrible 720p streaming service. No Paramount Plus for New Zealand! To add insult to injury, they don't even bother showing the movies and shows that they lock up this way. It's just about exercising monopoly power.
- nomel 5y ago
  That's almost certainly a requirement from the crusty content owners, not Netflix. They get the final say for the broadcast rights.
bubblethink 5y ago
No, it's not out of Netflix's hands. It's just the usual price negotiation. Netflix doesn't want to license content for global broadcast, which would be more expensive. So, they license it regionally. So, Netflix is as much at fault here as the rights holders.
- meowface 5y ago
  Yeah, it's definitely not entirely out of their hands. My reason for saying "essentially out of their hands": if their analysis shows that, say, they would almost certainly just be bleeding huge amounts of money by purchasing rights for regions where almost no one would ever watch it, I think it's hard to fault them for that decision. I'm guessing it's not a matter of nickel-and-diming, but it just really being very unwise or totally infeasible to get global rights for everything. Of course, I'm just blindly speculating and I have no clue and maybe they really are being cheap in some way. And I think it's quite possible the VPN stuff really is out of their hands. (From a policy perspective, not an implementation perspective. Obviously the implementation is entirely on them, and the false positive bans are their fault.) From a business perspective, I would think they'd be incentivized to allow them and not dedicate resources to trying to block them. But lots of podcasts I watch have a bunch of ad segments for different VPNs, where the main selling point is typically "watch stuff for other regions on Netflix", and I'm guessing the companies they're licensing from are increasingly seeing this loophole as basically a form of piracy.
  - miohtama 5y ago
    Netflix’s own catalog is available globally, without any regional restrictions.
    - meowface 5y ago
      Right. I'm just referring to things they license.
netflix_temp 5y ago
That's right, it is largely out of their hands, but as time goes on, they will have more control over it. For example, say they want to license a show, and they get it for one year for $50k, usa-only. Okay, but we want it world-wide. Alright, that will be 3 million, world-wide, except Australia. Okay. wait, what? We have a 7-year contract on Australia right now. We can't give you Australia. Now netflix has to decide if it's worth it for the 350 people who want to watch this in Europe and Asia to take the second deal. Sucks.

socialist_coder 5y ago

Why can't Netflix just allow people to buy another subscription for a new country? I wouldn't mind paying extra to unlock additional content from another country.

forrestthewoods 5y ago
Because the person who owns the content sold exclusive distribution rights in that country to another distributor.
- socialist_coder 5y ago
  But Netflix also has an agreement with whoever owns distribution rights in the other country though... that's why the VPN trick works. Just let me pay extra for the other country, what would be the problem there?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I would assume the content owners are demanding the Netflix to stop the VPN trick. I would assume the distributors in other countries are telling content owners they will not pay a certain price if Netflix is allowing people to use VPNs.
  - anotherman554 5y ago
    Your suggestion makes "common sense" but probably would cause legal issues. Suppose you are Canadian. Netflix has permission to sell Americans "Media Package A" and Canadians "Media Package B". They don't have permission to sell Canadians "Media Package A". You are saying "just let me buy both" but Netflix does not have permission from media companies to sell you both.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Ok, but why can't netflix apply the geo restrictions based on the payment and not the incoming IP address? I'd prefer to use a VPN for all of my traffic, and I'll gladly stay region locked to the region I reside in. But forcing me to go outside the VPN is something I'd rather not do.
  - meowface 5y ago
    True, that's a good point. Has it been confirmed that they're just blanket-blocking VPN IPs rather than specifically blocking cases of a customer's region shifting/not matching their registration details? If the VPN node's public IP matches the country in the subscriber's registration details, then it seems pretty unfair that they'd still restrict their account when accessed from that VPN IP. But I suppose from a technical standpoint it's probably far simpler for them to just find VPN IPs/subnets, add them to a database, and restrict content for any account accessed from any of those IPs, regardless of the account, IP, or content regions.
    - nyuszika7h 5y ago
      Yes, they block known VPN IPs even if it matches the customer’s home country. If a VPN IP is detected, only globally licensed content will be visible.
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
    The copyright applies to a specific viewing of a movie, not the purchase of a license. They can't enable their users to break license or they'll loose their right to distribute content.
- rodgerd 5y ago
  Yep. Paramount announced Paramount Plus in New Zealand and Australia. Then the failing pay TV monopoly paid up a bunch of money to make the content exclusive to their terrible 720p streaming service. No Paramount Plus for New Zealand! To add insult to injury, they don't even bother showing the movies and shows that they lock up this way. It's just about exercising monopoly power.
nomel 5y ago
That's almost certainly a requirement from the crusty content owners, not Netflix. They get the final say for the broadcast rights.

bubblethink 5y ago

No, it's not out of Netflix's hands. It's just the usual price negotiation. Netflix doesn't want to license content for global broadcast, which would be more expensive. So, they license it regionally. So, Netflix is as much at fault here as the rights holders.

meowface 5y ago
Yeah, it's definitely not entirely out of their hands. My reason for saying "essentially out of their hands": if their analysis shows that, say, they would almost certainly just be bleeding huge amounts of money by purchasing rights for regions where almost no one would ever watch it, I think it's hard to fault them for that decision. I'm guessing it's not a matter of nickel-and-diming, but it just really being very unwise or totally infeasible to get global rights for everything. Of course, I'm just blindly speculating and I have no clue and maybe they really are being cheap in some way. And I think it's quite possible the VPN stuff really is out of their hands. (From a policy perspective, not an implementation perspective. Obviously the implementation is entirely on them, and the false positive bans are their fault.) From a business perspective, I would think they'd be incentivized to allow them and not dedicate resources to trying to block them. But lots of podcasts I watch have a bunch of ad segments for different VPNs, where the main selling point is typically "watch stuff for other regions on Netflix", and I'm guessing the companies they're licensing from are increasingly seeing this loophole as basically a form of piracy.
- miohtama 5y ago
  Netflix’s own catalog is available globally, without any regional restrictions.
  - meowface 5y ago
    Right. I'm just referring to things they license.

netflix_temp 5y ago

That's right, it is largely out of their hands, but as time goes on, they will have more control over it. For example, say they want to license a show, and they get it for one year for $50k, usa-only. Okay, but we want it world-wide. Alright, that will be 3 million, world-wide, except Australia. Okay. wait, what? We have a 7-year contract on Australia right now. We can't give you Australia. Now netflix has to decide if it's worth it for the 350 people who want to watch this in Europe and Asia to take the second deal. Sucks.