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>When somebody starts bringing up Bill Clinton and Yugoslavia in 2021, you know who you're talking to. Everyone else has forgotten it. Perhaps not everyone has

>When somebody starts bringing up Bill Clinton and Yugoslavia in 2021, you know who you're talking to. Everyone else has forgotten it. Perhaps not everyone has forgotten that NATO bombed a civilian passenger train twice and then released sped up footage to justify it/explain it away. And they got away with no consequences. I can't believe you'd just dismiss people as Russian bots that bring this up.

simonh 5y ago
I'm quite happy for cases like that to be brought up. It's an unfortunate incident, but a good example of where an error was made and an explanation with supporting evidence was provided, and full co-operation was given to an independent investigation. Presumably you bring this up as an example of the kind of accountability and co-operation with investigations you think Russia should do more of?
- Mirioron 5y ago
  >Presumably you bring this up as an example of the kind of accountability and co-operation with investigations you think Russia should do more of? This has nothing to do with Russia. >but a good example of where an error was made and an explanation with supporting evidence was provided, and full co-operation was given to an independent investigation. Except they tried to cover it up and weaseled their way out of it by providing misleading (sped up) footage. 50-60 innocent people were killed on that train and there were no repercussions to the perpetrators. It's a miscarriage of justice and makes us in NATO look hypocritical whenever we demand that others behave better.
  - simonh 5y ago
    50-60 seems very implausibly high, and I note you only quote the very highest estimates not the full range of estimates. Only 8 victims were ever identified, and it's extremely unlikely 90% of victims would not have been identifiable. Most likely with the higher estimates the number of killed was conflated with the number of injured, or the number of people on the train. The fact is the bridge was a legitimate target and no evidence was found that the train itself was targeted. NATO opened itself to an independent investigation and was committed to abiding by it's findings. We should push other countries and organisations to do the same, and face the same standards of scrutiny.

simonh 5y ago

I'm quite happy for cases like that to be brought up. It's an unfortunate incident, but a good example of where an error was made and an explanation with supporting evidence was provided, and full co-operation was given to an independent investigation. Presumably you bring this up as an example of the kind of accountability and co-operation with investigations you think Russia should do more of?

Mirioron 5y ago
>Presumably you bring this up as an example of the kind of accountability and co-operation with investigations you think Russia should do more of? This has nothing to do with Russia. >but a good example of where an error was made and an explanation with supporting evidence was provided, and full co-operation was given to an independent investigation. Except they tried to cover it up and weaseled their way out of it by providing misleading (sped up) footage. 50-60 innocent people were killed on that train and there were no repercussions to the perpetrators. It's a miscarriage of justice and makes us in NATO look hypocritical whenever we demand that others behave better.
- simonh 5y ago
  50-60 seems very implausibly high, and I note you only quote the very highest estimates not the full range of estimates. Only 8 victims were ever identified, and it's extremely unlikely 90% of victims would not have been identifiable. Most likely with the higher estimates the number of killed was conflated with the number of injured, or the number of people on the train. The fact is the bridge was a legitimate target and no evidence was found that the train itself was targeted. NATO opened itself to an independent investigation and was committed to abiding by it's findings. We should push other countries and organisations to do the same, and face the same standards of scrutiny.