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I've hired a few 50+ devs and every time I regret it. Those specific devs learn much slower. They had a complex about their age that made them difficult to work

I've hired a few 50+ devs and every time I regret it. Those specific devs learn much slower. They had a complex about their age that made them difficult to work with and connect with. Their work product was bad and no amount of intervention corrected course. Being only in a senior role that late in life itself is a red flag.

Clubber 5y ago
What's above senior? Senior++?
- ivalm 5y ago
  Staff, principle, fellow? More seriously I think something that can happen with older folks is they might fall into working in a single place with a single set of tools for a very long time so when they transition to something different it may be hard to adjust. Not necessarily because “they are old” but because if they did one thing and only that thing for 15 years it’s hard to change.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    They could have had those roles already. Once you're in those advanced IC type of roles, there aren't really a lot of places that you can go. A lot of the time that role depends on your domain experience within the company -- Usually to "move up", you have to go down a role to a bigger/more-challenging company. Thus at BigCo, hiring senior devs of advanced age should make sense to do. s/a staff engineer/architect.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Many companies don't have positions titled staff, principle, etc. A lot just stop at senior, or use numbers, etc. My current shop has SE1,2,3,4,5,6. 4 is what most tech companies would call a staff engineer, 5 a principle, and I'm not sure if we actually have any 6s at the moment.
    - ivalm 5y ago
      Numbers are equivalent to titles. You presumably don’t have senior as title either.
  - nobleach 5y ago
    This is entirely dependent on the company. Netflix has one level "Senior Software Developer". My former employer only went up to Principal Developer. My current gig has one Senior Staff Engineer, me. The thing is, I didn't get better in the month between leaving my last gig, and starting this one. So these titles are a bit ambiguous.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  Principal software engineer. Or software architect.
  - tester756 5y ago
    Many companies do not add fancy titles sometimes it's just junior, regular and senior programmer
- kelvin0 5y ago
  Master of the Universe, of course.
- sciurus 5y ago
  Often some variations on https://staffeng.com/guides/overview-overview https://staffeng.com/guides/overview-overview
hermannj314 5y ago
This is incredibly wrong and I hope you get an opportunity to meet people to change your mind. I had an older employee in his 60s work as a dev even as he was slowly dying of cancer and receiving treatment. He showed up every day, doing his work, proudly contributing code even at deaths door, until his last day. He had worked 30 years in IT and was a senior dev and there was nothing wrong with his productivity, attitude, etc. I was blessed to know him. I hope you find strength to open your mind and realize there are wonderful people of all sorts and ages all around you.
- iratewizard 5y ago
  Your anecdata of one doesn't sway my real world experience. Cognitive decline starts at 25 for everyone, and no amount of midwit theory that everyone is equal will change that.
  - nicoffeine 5y ago
    In this thread alone you said “hired a few” older devs, and yet discount one person’s experience as “anecdata” while you claim to have “real world experience.” The difference between the two is not “a few” - 1. I’ve worked with amazing devs and hardware engineers from every age, including 50 and up. I’m guessing your experience with older devs “having a complex” was part of their response once they realized that you are just an asshole. As competent and experienced professionals who have dealt with many assholes before you, they adjusted their dedication to your project to reflect how little they cared about it once you became part of their job. They did enough not to feel guilty, but not so much that they risked working with you for longer than it took to find a better job.
    - iratewizard 5y ago
      I like how the story of the "amazing dev" above only tells about how he accomplished checking into work everyday and battling cancer. Every senior dev under 35 that I've hired has a much better narrative surrounding how well they work. I also like your story about me, because there isn't a single person who works for me or with me that would describe me as an asshole. I'm just an asshole to morons in denial on this flaming turd of a "tech forum". If you don't plan for your expiration date in the programming trenches, then you won't see it coming when it hits you hard. There's a reason the average age of a programmer is 39 just like there a reason why the average age of a construction worker is 38.
joelbluminator 5y ago
You probably hired a bunch of crappy young devs as well but if you are biased against older folks you will notice it more.
- iratewizard 5y ago
  So I should measure geriatric developers against junior developers just to be fair?
  - iosjunkie 5y ago
    Maybe measure - and hear me out on this one - all team members equally, factoring in their total comp. How much more productive is the team for having the individual on the team, regardless of their demographics.
    - iratewizard 5y ago
      Maybe - hear me out out on this one - I did and that's why they were fired.
  - joelbluminator 5y ago
    Why measure anyone? Measuring is for the insecure. Just trust your gut, obviously you know best...
    - iratewizard 5y ago
      I wish I could watch the end of your career pan out for laughs. Convinced that you're still as competent as you were when you were younger, but those assholes in charge of hiring won't give you a chance.
      - joelbluminator 5y ago
        Lol ok buddy...
Tarucho 5y ago
Problem is management is a pyramid (there is no place for everyone, even the best of them) and in some cultures (I´m in South America) a wealthy and contacted people club. Even if you are really good, you will not get promoted if you came for a non-wealthy background.
tharne 5y ago
I've had the opposite experience. Most experienced develops tend to learn things much quicker because they've got a lot more experience learning new things. I'll willing to bet the third or fourth programming language you learned came a hell of a lot quicker than the first.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Clubber 5y ago

What's above senior? Senior++?

ivalm 5y ago
Staff, principle, fellow? More seriously I think something that can happen with older folks is they might fall into working in a single place with a single set of tools for a very long time so when they transition to something different it may be hard to adjust. Not necessarily because “they are old” but because if they did one thing and only that thing for 15 years it’s hard to change.
- busterarm 5y ago
  They could have had those roles already. Once you're in those advanced IC type of roles, there aren't really a lot of places that you can go. A lot of the time that role depends on your domain experience within the company -- Usually to "move up", you have to go down a role to a bigger/more-challenging company. Thus at BigCo, hiring senior devs of advanced age should make sense to do. s/a staff engineer/architect.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Many companies don't have positions titled staff, principle, etc. A lot just stop at senior, or use numbers, etc. My current shop has SE1,2,3,4,5,6. 4 is what most tech companies would call a staff engineer, 5 a principle, and I'm not sure if we actually have any 6s at the moment.
  - ivalm 5y ago
    Numbers are equivalent to titles. You presumably don’t have senior as title either.
- nobleach 5y ago
  This is entirely dependent on the company. Netflix has one level "Senior Software Developer". My former employer only went up to Principal Developer. My current gig has one Senior Staff Engineer, me. The thing is, I didn't get better in the month between leaving my last gig, and starting this one. So these titles are a bit ambiguous.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
Principal software engineer. Or software architect.
- tester756 5y ago
  Many companies do not add fancy titles sometimes it's just junior, regular and senior programmer
kelvin0 5y ago
Master of the Universe, of course.
sciurus 5y ago
Often some variations on https://staffeng.com/guides/overview-overview https://staffeng.com/guides/overview-overview

hermannj314 5y ago

This is incredibly wrong and I hope you get an opportunity to meet people to change your mind. I had an older employee in his 60s work as a dev even as he was slowly dying of cancer and receiving treatment. He showed up every day, doing his work, proudly contributing code even at deaths door, until his last day. He had worked 30 years in IT and was a senior dev and there was nothing wrong with his productivity, attitude, etc. I was blessed to know him. I hope you find strength to open your mind and realize there are wonderful people of all sorts and ages all around you.

iratewizard 5y ago
Your anecdata of one doesn't sway my real world experience. Cognitive decline starts at 25 for everyone, and no amount of midwit theory that everyone is equal will change that.
- nicoffeine 5y ago
  In this thread alone you said “hired a few” older devs, and yet discount one person’s experience as “anecdata” while you claim to have “real world experience.” The difference between the two is not “a few” - 1. I’ve worked with amazing devs and hardware engineers from every age, including 50 and up. I’m guessing your experience with older devs “having a complex” was part of their response once they realized that you are just an asshole. As competent and experienced professionals who have dealt with many assholes before you, they adjusted their dedication to your project to reflect how little they cared about it once you became part of their job. They did enough not to feel guilty, but not so much that they risked working with you for longer than it took to find a better job.
  - iratewizard 5y ago
    I like how the story of the "amazing dev" above only tells about how he accomplished checking into work everyday and battling cancer. Every senior dev under 35 that I've hired has a much better narrative surrounding how well they work. I also like your story about me, because there isn't a single person who works for me or with me that would describe me as an asshole. I'm just an asshole to morons in denial on this flaming turd of a "tech forum". If you don't plan for your expiration date in the programming trenches, then you won't see it coming when it hits you hard. There's a reason the average age of a programmer is 39 just like there a reason why the average age of a construction worker is 38.

joelbluminator 5y ago

You probably hired a bunch of crappy young devs as well but if you are biased against older folks you will notice it more.

iratewizard 5y ago
So I should measure geriatric developers against junior developers just to be fair?
- iosjunkie 5y ago
  Maybe measure - and hear me out on this one - all team members equally, factoring in their total comp. How much more productive is the team for having the individual on the team, regardless of their demographics.
  - iratewizard 5y ago
    Maybe - hear me out out on this one - I did and that's why they were fired.
- joelbluminator 5y ago
  Why measure anyone? Measuring is for the insecure. Just trust your gut, obviously you know best...
  - iratewizard 5y ago
    I wish I could watch the end of your career pan out for laughs. Convinced that you're still as competent as you were when you were younger, but those assholes in charge of hiring won't give you a chance.
    - joelbluminator 5y ago
      Lol ok buddy...

Tarucho 5y ago

Problem is management is a pyramid (there is no place for everyone, even the best of them) and in some cultures (I´m in South America) a wealthy and contacted people club. Even if you are really good, you will not get promoted if you came for a non-wealthy background.

tharne 5y ago

I've had the opposite experience. Most experienced develops tend to learn things much quicker because they've got a lot more experience learning new things. I'll willing to bet the third or fourth programming language you learned came a hell of a lot quicker than the first.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]