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As was pointed out before, it's not possible to get insurance for this - homeowner's insurance specifically disclaims damage from renters, and it's generally no

As was pointed out before, it's not possible to get insurance for this - homeowner's insurance specifically disclaims damage from renters, and it's generally not legal to rent your premises like this unless you comply with all the hotel rules, so AirBnb can't take out insurance either. All they can do is self-insure, and if they start paying out, people will realize "Hey, I can get a new TV if I let my friend come and trash my old one". And yet your analysis of this particular case is spot-on. They stand to get CRUSHED by this story. Damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

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VladRussian 15y ago
>and it's generally not legal to rent your premises like this unless you comply with all the hotel rules, so AirBnb can't take out insurance either. can UberCab happen here, ie. some zealous DA would come down on AirBnB itself and/or subpoena the records of people renting out?
- jellicle 15y ago
  Sure. I would think that sooner or later, the hoteliers in, say, Manhattan would start complaining about people engaging in hotel business without following the hotel rules. There's a financial incentive as well: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/business/business_tax_hotel.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/business/business_tax_hotel... So yes, at some point I'd say it is likely that AirBnb's records are going to be used against their customers. Some of AirBnb's customers aren't breaking the law, but some are.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
What AirBNB could do is help the victim sue the criminal for damages in court. Lend her the support of their legal team. Of course, the odds that the criminal has anything left to take are low...
MichaelApproved 15y ago
"Hey, I can get a new TV if I let my friend come and trash my old one". Fraud is a problem with all insurance policies. Deductibles and investigations go a long way to curtail it. They can also set the premium high enough to cover the costs and get to claim that it's available if the homeowner chooses, even though most won't do to the high price. It's a feature that would make them stand out among their ever growing competitors.
Cushman 15y ago
I don't see what they stand to lose if they take the same stance as homeowner insurers do— if you file a police report, they'll pretty much take your word for it. In fact they have an even better guarantee, since they know (ideally...) exactly who the perpetrator was. They're not giving you the money to replace your stuff, they're lending it to you until they can recover it from the criminal. If the person who you claim did the damage claims they didn't, that's a problem they have with you, not with Airbnb.
- scott_s 15y ago
  Taking the same stance as homeowner's insurers do implies that they would be the insurance company. That's an enormous can o' worms.
  - Cushman 15y ago
    Why? They insure one specific thing: a contract between two individuals that they trust. The only way they lose out is if they don't actually have any realistic way to enforce the contract on the renter— which would surely be a way bigger problem for their business than having to pay out some fraudulent damages?
    - scott_s 15y ago
      "Some" fraudulent damages? If people figure out a reliable means to defraud you, they will do it until you fix the problem. And, congratulations, now your primary focus is fraud detection. You're now an insurance company. There's also the fact that insurance companies are subject to many laws and regulations that other businesses are not.
      - Cushman 15y ago
        You're missing my point— "Fraud detection" in Airbnb's case means "ensuring that owners and renters are who they say they are." Surely that should already be a primary focus of theirs.
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pdx 15y ago
It should be possible. I see this as the exact same situation as http://www.getaround.com/ http://www.getaround.com/, who are, according to techcrunch, "The Airbnb For Cars". They have a policy with Berkshire Hathaway that covers any damage to the rented cars. You can write insurance for anything, if you're willing to pay enough premium. I can't imagine this premium would be that exorbitant for Airbnb to pay for it's users, just as Getaround does.
- deleted 15y ago
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- jericsinger 15y ago
  The difference is that the cars on Getaround are presumably owned by the people listing them on the service. Much of Airbnb's inventory is comprised of rented apartments. Most rental agreements (in the US at least) prohibit occupancy by people not party to the rental agreement without prior landlord approval. Given that dynamic, Airbnb would probably have a difficult time finding a blanket policy for damages. Most insurers just aren't clamoring to cover activity that's in breach of prior contracts. As a renter, you can of course take out renters' insurance to protect yourself, however, it's unlikely your insurance company would willingly reimburse you for damage caused by an unauthorized subletter. There's a good reason VRBO has "By Owner" in its name.

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VladRussian 15y ago

>and it's generally not legal to rent your premises like this unless you comply with all the hotel rules, so AirBnb can't take out insurance either. can UberCab happen here, ie. some zealous DA would come down on AirBnB itself and/or subpoena the records of people renting out?

jellicle 15y ago
Sure. I would think that sooner or later, the hoteliers in, say, Manhattan would start complaining about people engaging in hotel business without following the hotel rules. There's a financial incentive as well: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/business/business_tax_hotel.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/dof/html/business/business_tax_hotel... So yes, at some point I'd say it is likely that AirBnb's records are going to be used against their customers. Some of AirBnb's customers aren't breaking the law, but some are.

pavel_lishin 15y ago

What AirBNB could do is help the victim sue the criminal for damages in court. Lend her the support of their legal team. Of course, the odds that the criminal has anything left to take are low...

MichaelApproved 15y ago

"Hey, I can get a new TV if I let my friend come and trash my old one". Fraud is a problem with all insurance policies. Deductibles and investigations go a long way to curtail it. They can also set the premium high enough to cover the costs and get to claim that it's available if the homeowner chooses, even though most won't do to the high price. It's a feature that would make them stand out among their ever growing competitors.

Cushman 15y ago

I don't see what they stand to lose if they take the same stance as homeowner insurers do— if you file a police report, they'll pretty much take your word for it. In fact they have an even better guarantee, since they know (ideally...) exactly who the perpetrator was. They're not giving you the money to replace your stuff, they're lending it to you until they can recover it from the criminal. If the person who you claim did the damage claims they didn't, that's a problem they have with you, not with Airbnb.

scott_s 15y ago
Taking the same stance as homeowner's insurers do implies that they would be the insurance company. That's an enormous can o' worms.
- Cushman 15y ago
  Why? They insure one specific thing: a contract between two individuals that they trust. The only way they lose out is if they don't actually have any realistic way to enforce the contract on the renter— which would surely be a way bigger problem for their business than having to pay out some fraudulent damages?
  - scott_s 15y ago
    "Some" fraudulent damages? If people figure out a reliable means to defraud you, they will do it until you fix the problem. And, congratulations, now your primary focus is fraud detection. You're now an insurance company. There's also the fact that insurance companies are subject to many laws and regulations that other businesses are not.
    - Cushman 15y ago
      You're missing my point— "Fraud detection" in Airbnb's case means "ensuring that owners and renters are who they say they are." Surely that should already be a primary focus of theirs.

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pdx 15y ago

It should be possible. I see this as the exact same situation as http://www.getaround.com/ http://www.getaround.com/, who are, according to techcrunch, "The Airbnb For Cars". They have a policy with Berkshire Hathaway that covers any damage to the rented cars. You can write insurance for anything, if you're willing to pay enough premium. I can't imagine this premium would be that exorbitant for Airbnb to pay for it's users, just as Getaround does.

deleted 15y ago
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jericsinger 15y ago
The difference is that the cars on Getaround are presumably owned by the people listing them on the service. Much of Airbnb's inventory is comprised of rented apartments. Most rental agreements (in the US at least) prohibit occupancy by people not party to the rental agreement without prior landlord approval. Given that dynamic, Airbnb would probably have a difficult time finding a blanket policy for damages. Most insurers just aren't clamoring to cover activity that's in breach of prior contracts. As a renter, you can of course take out renters' insurance to protect yourself, however, it's unlikely your insurance company would willingly reimburse you for damage caused by an unauthorized subletter. There's a good reason VRBO has "By Owner" in its name.