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I'm Australian. Respectfully, you're totally wrong. Government should be for everyone. Parties should have a platform that is for a majority. For the most part

I'm Australian. Respectfully, you're totally wrong. Government should be for everyone. Parties should have a platform that is for a majority. For the most part, Australia has populist fairly centrist small c conservative governments. It's getting bad at the moment here mostly because the current governing party is past due for it's turn on the opposition benches. And it also seems that everyone's having a go at being corrupt at the moment. Hopefully we get ontop of that. Anyway, folk with low IQ's making bad choices isn't really a problem. We have optional preferential voting (rank choice), it's hard enough to make an informed decision above or below the line each time and I do research! Most of the uniformed, just vote along family lines. Anyway, everyone has a right to vote and a duty in some respect. Making it harder for some, by making it opt in, will lead to more problems then having disengaged voters participating in haphazard ways.

c_o_n_v_e_x 5y ago
Re: voting, it's not a "right" if it's compulsory. It's an obligation.
- gonzo41 5y ago
  it's a pretty low impost obligation. But I'd refer to it as a minor duty to the community.
  - swader999 5y ago
    Not voting though is a form of protest in many cases. I suppose though even if it is compulsory you could show up and spoil your ballot. I'd be fine with that.
    - gonzo41 5y ago
      Many do just that.
- strken 5y ago
  What's the practical meaningful difference between exercising your right to not vote, vs fulfilling your obligation to vote by showing up to the polling place and drawing dicks on the ballot paper? Pretend you're an Australian and have a long tradition of fining people minor sums of money for not showing up. Why would you change to non-compulsory voting?
  - partomniscient 5y ago
    Your scenario also needs to account for free sausage sandwiches. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage
- otikik 5y ago
  It's easy to forget that every right comes with obligation. Say you have the right to own property. That comes with the obligation to respect other people's property. And so on. When a right comes obligations it isn't a right. It's a privilege. That's the stuff kings used to have (and still have, in some places).
- throwaheyy 5y ago
  Technically, you have the right not to vote in Australia, but you must still show up and collect a ballot paper. You can leave it blank, or scribble anything on it.
AdrianB1 5y ago
It is not clear from your comment if you really believe the village idiot should vote; that is 15% of the population or even more, in some cases. Having the right to vote ... still in doubt, but expecting their participation to decision making - hell no. It is just about realism and competence, when you go to a doctor's office for a consultation you ask for the competent doctor to respond or you ask everyone in the building to vote your diagnostic? A significant part of the population is not competent enough to vote.
marcusverus 5y ago
> Anyway, folk with low IQ's making bad choices isn't really a problem. You don't seek out the advice of the mentally retarded when making personal decisions. Why would you do so when determining how to run your society? > Most of the uniformed, just vote along family lines. The point of a democratic elections is to get the considered input of the population. People who 'just vote along family lines' are noise in the signal. If they want to, then fine. But why would you force them to contribute their arbitrary, uninformed opinions? > Anyway, everyone has a right to vote and a duty in some respect. Of course they do. > Making it harder for some, by making it opt in, will lead to more problems then having disengaged voters participating in haphazard ways. This is nonsense. Forcing older kids to go to school doesn't result in more engaged school-kids, it results in rooms full of angry, disengaged kids who cause problems for the people who want to be there. Similarly, forcing people to vote just adds a bunch of random votes to the pile. Democracy is a great thing. But democracy doesn't work because more human hands touching ballots makes for better government--it works because you can get good advice by asking the input of a large number of responsible, conscientious people. We know that the least educated among us are the least likely to vote. We also know that IQ predicts academic achievement. So why would you go out of your way to increase the proportion of Prec

c_o_n_v_e_x 5y ago

Re: voting, it's not a "right" if it's compulsory. It's an obligation.

gonzo41 5y ago
it's a pretty low impost obligation. But I'd refer to it as a minor duty to the community.
- swader999 5y ago
  Not voting though is a form of protest in many cases. I suppose though even if it is compulsory you could show up and spoil your ballot. I'd be fine with that.
  - gonzo41 5y ago
    Many do just that.
strken 5y ago
What's the practical meaningful difference between exercising your right to not vote, vs fulfilling your obligation to vote by showing up to the polling place and drawing dicks on the ballot paper? Pretend you're an Australian and have a long tradition of fining people minor sums of money for not showing up. Why would you change to non-compulsory voting?
- partomniscient 5y ago
  Your scenario also needs to account for free sausage sandwiches. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage
otikik 5y ago
It's easy to forget that every right comes with obligation. Say you have the right to own property. That comes with the obligation to respect other people's property. And so on. When a right comes obligations it isn't a right. It's a privilege. That's the stuff kings used to have (and still have, in some places).
throwaheyy 5y ago
Technically, you have the right not to vote in Australia, but you must still show up and collect a ballot paper. You can leave it blank, or scribble anything on it.

AdrianB1 5y ago

It is not clear from your comment if you really believe the village idiot should vote; that is 15% of the population or even more, in some cases. Having the right to vote ... still in doubt, but expecting their participation to decision making - hell no. It is just about realism and competence, when you go to a doctor's office for a consultation you ask for the competent doctor to respond or you ask everyone in the building to vote your diagnostic? A significant part of the population is not competent enough to vote.

marcusverus 5y ago

> Anyway, folk with low IQ's making bad choices isn't really a problem. You don't seek out the advice of the mentally retarded when making personal decisions. Why would you do so when determining how to run your society? > Most of the uniformed, just vote along family lines. The point of a democratic elections is to get the considered input of the population. People who 'just vote along family lines' are noise in the signal. If they want to, then fine. But why would you force them to contribute their arbitrary, uninformed opinions? > Anyway, everyone has a right to vote and a duty in some respect. Of course they do. > Making it harder for some, by making it opt in, will lead to more problems then having disengaged voters participating in haphazard ways. This is nonsense. Forcing older kids to go to school doesn't result in more engaged school-kids, it results in rooms full of angry, disengaged kids who cause problems for the people who want to be there. Similarly, forcing people to vote just adds a bunch of random votes to the pile. Democracy is a great thing. But democracy doesn't work because more human hands touching ballots makes for better government--it works because you can get good advice by asking the input of a large number of responsible, conscientious people. We know that the least educated among us are the least likely to vote. We also know that IQ predicts academic achievement. So why would you go out of your way to increase the proportion of Prec