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> I think it'll end up more like V for Vendetta. I also love to read this kind of parallel between fiction and reality. However, when you have some experience

> I think it'll end up more like V for Vendetta. I also love to read this kind of parallel between fiction and reality. However, when you have some experience working in defense you find out reality is more like: there's real criminal to catch, real victims to protect and to save, it's not like we have any time for non critical stuff such as going after pacific dissidents, and controlling all the medias like in V would be so much work and pointless it's not even considered. About Exxon, well international finance is particularly hard indeed which you'll find out quite fast you start working in the AML sector, but guess what we* are making progress. But let's face it as scientists: there will be no silver bullet. All we have left is to compare cost/benefit ratios of different compromises. As such, you will always find a single case of something to complain about on some tech forum if that's what you get your kicks from. *we: people who are actively working on it rather than complaining anonymously about single cases and making generalities about it in order to propagate some agitation on some obscure tech forum to predict a future like in a teenager comic book It's funny here, users complain about Exxon and others having unethical behaviors or even breaking the law, I relate to that, but at the same time they are against using tech they create to increase security. How do you live in such a contradiction? Not to mention mass surveillance will create tech jobs you are probably part of the small number of people who can apply and get hired and actually work on it with their own ethic.

tsimionescu 5y ago
> However, when you have some experience working in defense you find out reality is more like: there's real criminal to catch, real victims to protect and to save, it's not like we have any time for non critical stuff such as going after pacific dissidents This is wildly self-serving. Security services all over the world absolutely go after dissidents and whistle-blower and many other undesirables. Just look at the COINTELPRO papers in the USA to see this, for a well documented historic example from a free country - not only were security services investigating peaceful protesters, they were actively infiltrating, trying to coerce them to commit crimes, blackmailing MLK into committing suicide, they payed for the assassination of the Black Panthers leader and many others. Or look at the recent 'governor kidnapping plot', bravely foiled by intelligence services, who were actually 10 of the 12 people in on the 'plot'... > at the same time they are against using tech they create to increase security. How do you live in such a contradiction? Not to mention mass surveillance will create tech jobs you are probably part of the small number of people who can apply and get hired and actually work on it with their own ethic. A solution to a problem can be worse than the problem. I am all for solutions to the huge number of car fatalities, but that doesn't mean I support banning cars, even though that would fix the problem. Surveillance states create way more problems than they solve, and are invariably used against political minorities. The ethics of individual operators are irrelevant - if the institutional drive is there, workers will be selected until they match the institutional drive.
- 1337shadow 5y ago
  Just took a quick look at COINTELPRO (1956–1971) and we're going to have to disagree that their priority was "investigating peaceful protesters", but rather "violent groups threatening national security" when I read: Ku Klux Klan, Black Panthers, Black Power, Nation of Islam, Young Lords ... Does that mean COINTELPRO was flawless? Certainly not, but pretty founded IMHO. There's also the communist party, well I guess that's over now you're absolutely free to be communist, same goes for feminism. And the groups in question have all won, their ideologies have won, you know have blacks, muslims, feminists, communists inside probably every government agency - even though, they will probably not be extremists, and love their country. If these ideologies have won, and that freedom has stabilized for everyone, what's the point of going into yet another civil war now? If you agree it's pointless, then why are you afraid that the government would go after you if you are not dangerous? You're saying the ethics of individual operators are irrelevant, does that mean you think that the ethic of Minutemen was irrelevant? It's half the story from my point of view, even you are criticizing their ethics ("trying to coerce into committing crimes"). Psychological warfare goes both ways you know, for a government to try to counter it seems pretty sane to me. It's not like you're not free nor have many means to publish all the agitation propaganda you want these days. But we get it, you just want to keep your tech to overthrow elected governments instead helping the government to protect your family and people, because "solutions can create more problems than they solve": let's not do anything about our security problems and let's especially not try more tech nor tech upgrades.
- partomniscient 5y ago
  The Chinese are doing it as part of 'reformatting' Hong Kong, but it happens in our own backyards as well [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yqoDs1_TE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yqoDs1_TE In our current world societies the university students are the most important visible protestors, because they're the smartest people that have the most to lose from incoming forced change. They're young and they see personal freedom disappearing. However given the recent selling out nature of universities in Australia, we might lose this early-warning signal too...
  - 1337shadow 5y ago
partomniscient 5y ago
We're going backwards. I was mainly thinking of us approaching the 'state of the nation' in the comic/movie before 'V' etc. started fighting back. Not the whole interrupted broadcast attack part. Things have mostly worked out pretty well for Keith Rupert Murdoch, although he's getting pretty old now. Unfortunately he is nothing like 'V'. With regards to AML: You can't tell if you're making progress if you don't have all the pieces. Your last paragraph is nonsense and your using it to justify your own identity. Your last sentence terrifies me. It means you have no idea whats going on either and have sold out or bought in to something you don't completely understand.
- 1337shadow 5y ago
  > I was mainly thinking of us approaching the 'state of the nation' in the comic/movie before 'V' etc. started fighting back. Not the whole interrupted broadcast attack part. You're still daydreaming about civil war, maybe that's why you're so scared of your own ethics? > With regards to AML: You can't tell if you're making progress if you don't have all the pieces. Yes, I can tell there are many competent people working daily on the AML problems, more tech is created, more laws are created, more offenders get caught: and I dare call that "making progress". It's actually a striving sector because financial institutions such as banks get fined for when they don't try their best and that itself creates a lot of budget to make even more progress. > Your last paragraph is nonsense and your using it to justify your own identity. Your last sentence terrifies me. It means you have no idea whats going on either and have sold out or bought in to something you don't completely understand. Absolutely, you're part of the little number of people who are aware and know, and I'm part of the majority of ignorant people. Nice argumentation by the way! (jk, you're just meaninglessly trying to maintain the status quo).
  - partomniscient 5y ago
    You can just pretend to be the narrator if it will make you feel better.
tekknik 5y ago
> Not to mention mass surveillance will create tech jobs you are probably part of the small number of people who can apply and get hired and actually work on it with their own ethic. Please, give me access to a surveillance codebase. I’ll do everything in my power to destroy it and it’s backups.

tsimionescu 5y ago

> However, when you have some experience working in defense you find out reality is more like: there's real criminal to catch, real victims to protect and to save, it's not like we have any time for non critical stuff such as going after pacific dissidents This is wildly self-serving. Security services all over the world absolutely go after dissidents and whistle-blower and many other undesirables. Just look at the COINTELPRO papers in the USA to see this, for a well documented historic example from a free country - not only were security services investigating peaceful protesters, they were actively infiltrating, trying to coerce them to commit crimes, blackmailing MLK into committing suicide, they payed for the assassination of the Black Panthers leader and many others. Or look at the recent 'governor kidnapping plot', bravely foiled by intelligence services, who were actually 10 of the 12 people in on the 'plot'... > at the same time they are against using tech they create to increase security. How do you live in such a contradiction? Not to mention mass surveillance will create tech jobs you are probably part of the small number of people who can apply and get hired and actually work on it with their own ethic. A solution to a problem can be worse than the problem. I am all for solutions to the huge number of car fatalities, but that doesn't mean I support banning cars, even though that would fix the problem. Surveillance states create way more problems than they solve, and are invariably used against political minorities. The ethics of individual operators are irrelevant - if the institutional drive is there, workers will be selected until they match the institutional drive.

1337shadow 5y ago
Just took a quick look at COINTELPRO (1956–1971) and we're going to have to disagree that their priority was "investigating peaceful protesters", but rather "violent groups threatening national security" when I read: Ku Klux Klan, Black Panthers, Black Power, Nation of Islam, Young Lords ... Does that mean COINTELPRO was flawless? Certainly not, but pretty founded IMHO. There's also the communist party, well I guess that's over now you're absolutely free to be communist, same goes for feminism. And the groups in question have all won, their ideologies have won, you know have blacks, muslims, feminists, communists inside probably every government agency - even though, they will probably not be extremists, and love their country. If these ideologies have won, and that freedom has stabilized for everyone, what's the point of going into yet another civil war now? If you agree it's pointless, then why are you afraid that the government would go after you if you are not dangerous? You're saying the ethics of individual operators are irrelevant, does that mean you think that the ethic of Minutemen was irrelevant? It's half the story from my point of view, even you are criticizing their ethics ("trying to coerce into committing crimes"). Psychological warfare goes both ways you know, for a government to try to counter it seems pretty sane to me. It's not like you're not free nor have many means to publish all the agitation propaganda you want these days. But we get it, you just want to keep your tech to overthrow elected governments instead helping the government to protect your family and people, because "solutions can create more problems than they solve": let's not do anything about our security problems and let's especially not try more tech nor tech upgrades.
partomniscient 5y ago
The Chinese are doing it as part of 'reformatting' Hong Kong, but it happens in our own backyards as well [1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yqoDs1_TE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22yqoDs1_TE In our current world societies the university students are the most important visible protestors, because they're the smartest people that have the most to lose from incoming forced change. They're young and they see personal freedom disappearing. However given the recent selling out nature of universities in Australia, we might lose this early-warning signal too...
- 1337shadow 5y ago

partomniscient 5y ago

We're going backwards. I was mainly thinking of us approaching the 'state of the nation' in the comic/movie before 'V' etc. started fighting back. Not the whole interrupted broadcast attack part. Things have mostly worked out pretty well for Keith Rupert Murdoch, although he's getting pretty old now. Unfortunately he is nothing like 'V'. With regards to AML: You can't tell if you're making progress if you don't have all the pieces. Your last paragraph is nonsense and your using it to justify your own identity. Your last sentence terrifies me. It means you have no idea whats going on either and have sold out or bought in to something you don't completely understand.

1337shadow 5y ago
> I was mainly thinking of us approaching the 'state of the nation' in the comic/movie before 'V' etc. started fighting back. Not the whole interrupted broadcast attack part. You're still daydreaming about civil war, maybe that's why you're so scared of your own ethics? > With regards to AML: You can't tell if you're making progress if you don't have all the pieces. Yes, I can tell there are many competent people working daily on the AML problems, more tech is created, more laws are created, more offenders get caught: and I dare call that "making progress". It's actually a striving sector because financial institutions such as banks get fined for when they don't try their best and that itself creates a lot of budget to make even more progress. > Your last paragraph is nonsense and your using it to justify your own identity. Your last sentence terrifies me. It means you have no idea whats going on either and have sold out or bought in to something you don't completely understand. Absolutely, you're part of the little number of people who are aware and know, and I'm part of the majority of ignorant people. Nice argumentation by the way! (jk, you're just meaninglessly trying to maintain the status quo).
- partomniscient 5y ago
  You can just pretend to be the narrator if it will make you feel better.

tekknik 5y ago

> Not to mention mass surveillance will create tech jobs you are probably part of the small number of people who can apply and get hired and actually work on it with their own ethic. Please, give me access to a surveillance codebase. I’ll do everything in my power to destroy it and it’s backups.