6 ms·

No, that means first do your own, and then start bitching about others, because other way I do not see how are we better then those criminals in article. Yes,

No, that means first do your own, and then start bitching about others, because other way I do not see how are we better then those criminals in article. Yes, I know, they are in our turf so now we need to bitch about them. What is the famous quote?, ah yes, "as we need to protect our economic interests" ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

ransom1538 5y ago
This is a Fallacy. Example: Country A is active in genocide. Country B had genocide in it's history 150 years ago, during that time it was not considered immoral. Therefore Country A is not immoral. Edit: downvotes. You don't think its a fallacy? hahaha
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
  Yes, I think your sentence is fallacy (I am not the one who gave you downvotes). And at the same time that is reason why UK is trying so hard to hide taking part in slavery and oppression during the imperialistic conquest. Genocide is a genocide regardless of the period of time. Some say that reparation cost to Jamaica because of the slavery would cost trillions, which of course UK does not, or will ever have any plans to do. Also NATO waging wars around the globe was never legal or just, we were just going for oil and other resources using "shortcut". During NATO imperialistic conquest we have international laws and UN, but it seems that international organisation has more decorative purpose than anything else equally goes for Russia and China. Russia's war dogs would never be in Libya if we have not had destroyed that country first. During Roman empire at least they created roads, aqueducts, they gave writing system, what good did NATO give to any of those middle east countries?
  - throwrqX 5y ago
    What evidence is there for NATO chasing oil or other resources?
swashboon 5y ago
How about we bitch about ALL the war crimes at the same time?
- FridayoLeary 5y ago
  because nothing gets done that way.
  - pc86 5y ago
    Imagine thinking that you can't simultaneously work to make one thing better while calling out the badness of something else.
    - Veen 5y ago
      You can try that. But you may find you alienate the allies who could help you to make that one thing better, thereby making nothing better. An even-handed approach seems moral, but if all you do is complain equally about everyone who doesn't fit your strict moral standards, you won't do anything useful in the real world. Sometimes, you have to pick a fight and not be too purist about choosing your allies.
- NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
  In that way we know that no one is not doing anything about it, and they are not trying to manipulate us. I say that is fair :) Approved by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efOs0BsE0g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efOs0BsE0g
- corpdrone2021 5y ago
  Because I have limited empathy and scope insensitivity. If I'm emotionally burnt out about the crimes of a strongman like Putin who I have zero ability to change how will I put pressure on my local police chief to fire bad cops?
Retric 5y ago
At the level of nations, reporting war crimes doesn’t prevent a state from doing anything else. 1 reporter per million people is less than a rounding error.
avmich 5y ago
> No, that means first do your own, and then start bitching about others, because other way I do not see how are we better then those criminals in article. There's the proverb "sees a speck in another's eye, but does not notice a log in his own eye". No major country is innocent, yet dismissing them all as equally bad is wrong and unacceptable; they do allow comparison, and Western countries come much better for their record of wars over last decades than some others. First doing their own is like asking to postpone space exploration until all problems on Earth will be solved. Not to mention that space exploration helps solving Earth problems; postponing flying to space can thus be indefinite, as on Earth you can almost always find problems. Western hemisphere only recently had a situation with no wars; you can then always point to smaller conflicts. West has to improve, yes; however that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold some non-Western countries as more accountable for bigger international problems.
- h0h0h0h0111 5y ago
  >Western countries come much better for their record of wars over last decades than some others Are you forgetting about jetting across the world to Iraq and Afghanistan on dubious pretences? While I certainly don't condone (nor frankly know much about) Russia's involvement in Ukraine and Crimea, at least they share borders and have a large number of ethnic Russians there to be fighting over.
  - avmich 5y ago
    No, I don't forget about West problems. Number of Russians in neighboring Ukraine is a pretense. The real reason is so called "imperial phantom's pains", the worldview of the Russian power about how everything works, the Cold War era division into "them" and "us". They don't believe in the democracy, they never experienced that and were trained to be suspicious about it. For just about everybody - Russians on both sides of the border as well as Ukrainians - the conflict made things worse, and for a long time. Kremlin lives in a bad illusion, which it tries to induce into others.
- NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
  It is Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." I feel that each human nation as soon as they becomes a supper power they adopt behavior of a bully having bullies sense of justice e.g. "domination, violence and exploit". Comparing a good technological achievement with moral and ethical values is not good analogy, but I understand what was your attempt. Speaking about the open space, i think that bully mindset is not really a behavior we want to carry with us. Do we really think that if other intelligent life (if it exist of course and is more intelligent) will let us? Another issue is that space gives a military upper hand, meaning who ever deploys Moon base or Mars base will have ability to produce nukes or commence meteor strike on opponent country without much chance to defend themselves. So, in some sense something noble can be easily tuned to eval means. If China builds a moon base on the far side, we need to pair with moon base and spying satellites so we can track what are they doing, crating new military race, all the while mother planet is burning because of Global Warming as trillions are diverted - due to inability of nations to cooperate with each other. Thus, I am trying to say, more technological power requires higher level of consciousness (goodness), otherwise we are just raging monkeys that will blow them selves up in one way or another.

ransom1538 5y ago

This is a Fallacy. Example: Country A is active in genocide. Country B had genocide in it's history 150 years ago, during that time it was not considered immoral. Therefore Country A is not immoral. Edit: downvotes. You don't think its a fallacy? hahaha

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
Yes, I think your sentence is fallacy (I am not the one who gave you downvotes). And at the same time that is reason why UK is trying so hard to hide taking part in slavery and oppression during the imperialistic conquest. Genocide is a genocide regardless of the period of time. Some say that reparation cost to Jamaica because of the slavery would cost trillions, which of course UK does not, or will ever have any plans to do. Also NATO waging wars around the globe was never legal or just, we were just going for oil and other resources using "shortcut". During NATO imperialistic conquest we have international laws and UN, but it seems that international organisation has more decorative purpose than anything else equally goes for Russia and China. Russia's war dogs would never be in Libya if we have not had destroyed that country first. During Roman empire at least they created roads, aqueducts, they gave writing system, what good did NATO give to any of those middle east countries?
- throwrqX 5y ago
  What evidence is there for NATO chasing oil or other resources?

swashboon 5y ago

How about we bitch about ALL the war crimes at the same time?

FridayoLeary 5y ago
because nothing gets done that way.
- pc86 5y ago
  Imagine thinking that you can't simultaneously work to make one thing better while calling out the badness of something else.
  - Veen 5y ago
    You can try that. But you may find you alienate the allies who could help you to make that one thing better, thereby making nothing better. An even-handed approach seems moral, but if all you do is complain equally about everyone who doesn't fit your strict moral standards, you won't do anything useful in the real world. Sometimes, you have to pick a fight and not be too purist about choosing your allies.
NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
In that way we know that no one is not doing anything about it, and they are not trying to manipulate us. I say that is fair :) Approved by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efOs0BsE0g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1efOs0BsE0g
corpdrone2021 5y ago
Because I have limited empathy and scope insensitivity. If I'm emotionally burnt out about the crimes of a strongman like Putin who I have zero ability to change how will I put pressure on my local police chief to fire bad cops?

Retric 5y ago

At the level of nations, reporting war crimes doesn’t prevent a state from doing anything else. 1 reporter per million people is less than a rounding error.

avmich 5y ago

> No, that means first do your own, and then start bitching about others, because other way I do not see how are we better then those criminals in article. There's the proverb "sees a speck in another's eye, but does not notice a log in his own eye". No major country is innocent, yet dismissing them all as equally bad is wrong and unacceptable; they do allow comparison, and Western countries come much better for their record of wars over last decades than some others. First doing their own is like asking to postpone space exploration until all problems on Earth will be solved. Not to mention that space exploration helps solving Earth problems; postponing flying to space can thus be indefinite, as on Earth you can almost always find problems. Western hemisphere only recently had a situation with no wars; you can then always point to smaller conflicts. West has to improve, yes; however that doesn't mean we shouldn't hold some non-Western countries as more accountable for bigger international problems.

h0h0h0h0111 5y ago
>Western countries come much better for their record of wars over last decades than some others Are you forgetting about jetting across the world to Iraq and Afghanistan on dubious pretences? While I certainly don't condone (nor frankly know much about) Russia's involvement in Ukraine and Crimea, at least they share borders and have a large number of ethnic Russians there to be fighting over.
- avmich 5y ago
  No, I don't forget about West problems. Number of Russians in neighboring Ukraine is a pretense. The real reason is so called "imperial phantom's pains", the worldview of the Russian power about how everything works, the Cold War era division into "them" and "us". They don't believe in the democracy, they never experienced that and were trained to be suspicious about it. For just about everybody - Russians on both sides of the border as well as Ukrainians - the conflict made things worse, and for a long time. Kremlin lives in a bad illusion, which it tries to induce into others.
NiceWayToDoIT 5y ago
It is Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." I feel that each human nation as soon as they becomes a supper power they adopt behavior of a bully having bullies sense of justice e.g. "domination, violence and exploit". Comparing a good technological achievement with moral and ethical values is not good analogy, but I understand what was your attempt. Speaking about the open space, i think that bully mindset is not really a behavior we want to carry with us. Do we really think that if other intelligent life (if it exist of course and is more intelligent) will let us? Another issue is that space gives a military upper hand, meaning who ever deploys Moon base or Mars base will have ability to produce nukes or commence meteor strike on opponent country without much chance to defend themselves. So, in some sense something noble can be easily tuned to eval means. If China builds a moon base on the far side, we need to pair with moon base and spying satellites so we can track what are they doing, crating new military race, all the while mother planet is burning because of Global Warming as trillions are diverted - due to inability of nations to cooperate with each other. Thus, I am trying to say, more technological power requires higher level of consciousness (goodness), otherwise we are just raging monkeys that will blow them selves up in one way or another.