11 ms·

FIRE (financial independence retire early) is the new thing. If the millionaire next door isn't possible, what are all these FIRE people doing? Oh right, I know

FIRE (financial independence retire early) is the new thing. If the millionaire next door isn't possible, what are all these FIRE people doing? Oh right, I know one that's planning to retire soon - in his 40s. Don't worry, that means one more good paying job will be available for someone else ;-)

zhdc1 5y ago
We know many people who are either on the path towards early retirement or will have the opportunity of do so. They make good, but not great salaries, live frugally (e.g., use public transportation), and save. It’s not hard.
- he_is_legend 5y ago
  Not hard as a rule, but it has one fairly difficult (for many) yet deciding factor: getting that high earning job when you are young, in a FAANG (or comparable company). Working for these type companies is a luxury limited to a very low percentage of people indeed (I have interviewed for them).
  - moate 5y ago
    "It's simple. If you don't want to be poor, earn more money". God I'm such an IDIOT. Why had I never thought of that... Seriously though, I love reading the comments section of HN, a subsection of a subsection in a high-growth, high-value industry talking about how easy/simple it is to make a ton of money and use that money to do things they want. Where my Eastern European hackers at? Where my Indian code-factory guys? Anyone want to chime in on your experiences?
    - givesendgo 5y ago
      "I'm Sundar Pichai, and I approve this message"
    - EEREPRESENT 5y ago
      I make ~100,000 euro yearly in eastern europe and invest maybe 90%. I can already retire, but think I'll do this for a few more years (job good, coworkers good) Suppose that wasn't the experience you were looking for?:)
      - moate 5y ago
        Of course this is the feedback I’m looking for. Confirmation that I’m wrong is always welcome. That said… We have a burner account providing a sample size of 1 here, guess I’ll shut it down.
        burntoutfire 5y ago
        FWIW, I'm in indentical position as EEREPRESENT. I've even already "retired", but will probably come back to the contracting market for a year or three more, just to earn extra cash.
        moate 5y ago
        FWIW, the original point I was trying to make seems to have gotten lost which is that tech workers (a high earning cohort relative to the rest of the population) extolling financial advice that amounts to “make more money than you need to survive and save the excess” isn’t helpful to the vast majority of the population. As someone in a less financially prosperous section of world than the US, do you think that advice is particularly helpful to your countrymen? Is the problem that people are wasteful and unwilling to make obvious choices, or that those opportunities aren’t as widely available as HN’s commenters might make them out to be?
        burntoutfire 5y ago
        You really need an income considerably above average to be able to think about FIRE in Poland (whereas in US you could probably retire early on an average salary). In that regard, it's less applicable.
  - zhdc1 5y ago
    We know one couple who makes FAANG level income. They have a very nice apartment, but otherwise are as reasonable with their spending (from what we’ve seen) as everyone else. The rest of our social circle is decidedly middle income. We also live in a very high cost of living location that isn’t California or NYC. Guess what guys, you can have a good life in all but a small handful of places while saving towards retirement and making median wages.
- notyourday 5y ago
  That is until they wake up in their mid forties/early fifties and realize the entire life passed them by. The problem of being relatively rich and living like a poor person is that it is a life of a poor person. Spending money provides access to experiences. Having gobs of money at fifties or sixties won't reset the clock and unlock what one missed in twenties, thirties and forties
  - mbg721 5y ago
    Frugality here is distinct from cheapness; I don't think the FIRE advocates would say to live like a poor person in the Sam Vimes' Boots sense. Ideally it's more about avoiding the hedonic treadmill as much as possible, where you'd be spending money without getting any meaningful experiences.
    - notyourday 5y ago
      FIRE is exactly that. It is living like a poor person on a well off person income and banking the difference to retire early. For example, my very nice apartment in NYC costs me about $4500/mo. I get a 35-40 minutes commute to my office door to door. I have a co-worker who lives in PA. His one way commute is 2h-3h ( depending on a day ) one way but he pays only $1300 for his apartment and $1000/mo on the commute, making his cost $2300/mo. He says it is a great deal because he saving all that money and he is going to retire before me. We also have a custodian. The custodian is paid much, much less than either of us. The custodian happens to live next to my co-worker. In fact, it was the custodian who told my co-worker about that place. Because of how much an average American works, including my co-worker, life of my coworker pretty much matches the life of our custodian.
      - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
        >FIRE is exactly that. It is living like a poor person on a well off person income and banking the difference to retire early. No, it's living below your means, saving and investing, because you value your time more than you value stuff. Your anecdotes are exactly that. The average person saving for FIRE is no miser.
mbbutler 5y ago
I like the idea of FIRE but so many of its practitioners developed their passive income by becoming parasitic landlords. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- moate 5y ago
  >>...parasitic landlords. This is redundant.
- JohnPrine 5y ago
  if you have a problem with landlords then you just have a problem with capitalism in general
  - mbbutler 5y ago
    I do and I do.
    - burntoutfire 5y ago
      There are still a few non-capitalist countries in the world (N. Korea, Kuba, Venezuela), perhaps you'd like it better there.
- trenning 5y ago
  There's definitely a lot of Airbnb flob house owners that are outspoken in the fire type communities. But in the coastfire/leanfire groups there's more interest in steady savings and living frugal which is much more palatable to read.
- gruez 5y ago
  >becoming parasitic landlords How am I being a "parasitic landlord" by investing in the S&P500, which is mostly composed of companies generating value?

zhdc1 5y ago

We know many people who are either on the path towards early retirement or will have the opportunity of do so. They make good, but not great salaries, live frugally (e.g., use public transportation), and save. It’s not hard.

he_is_legend 5y ago
Not hard as a rule, but it has one fairly difficult (for many) yet deciding factor: getting that high earning job when you are young, in a FAANG (or comparable company). Working for these type companies is a luxury limited to a very low percentage of people indeed (I have interviewed for them).
- moate 5y ago
  "It's simple. If you don't want to be poor, earn more money". God I'm such an IDIOT. Why had I never thought of that... Seriously though, I love reading the comments section of HN, a subsection of a subsection in a high-growth, high-value industry talking about how easy/simple it is to make a ton of money and use that money to do things they want. Where my Eastern European hackers at? Where my Indian code-factory guys? Anyone want to chime in on your experiences?
  - givesendgo 5y ago
    "I'm Sundar Pichai, and I approve this message"
  - EEREPRESENT 5y ago
    I make ~100,000 euro yearly in eastern europe and invest maybe 90%. I can already retire, but think I'll do this for a few more years (job good, coworkers good) Suppose that wasn't the experience you were looking for?:)
    - moate 5y ago
      Of course this is the feedback I’m looking for. Confirmation that I’m wrong is always welcome. That said… We have a burner account providing a sample size of 1 here, guess I’ll shut it down.
      - burntoutfire 5y ago
        FWIW, I'm in indentical position as EEREPRESENT. I've even already "retired", but will probably come back to the contracting market for a year or three more, just to earn extra cash.
        moate 5y ago
        FWIW, the original point I was trying to make seems to have gotten lost which is that tech workers (a high earning cohort relative to the rest of the population) extolling financial advice that amounts to “make more money than you need to survive and save the excess” isn’t helpful to the vast majority of the population. As someone in a less financially prosperous section of world than the US, do you think that advice is particularly helpful to your countrymen? Is the problem that people are wasteful and unwilling to make obvious choices, or that those opportunities aren’t as widely available as HN’s commenters might make them out to be?
        burntoutfire 5y ago
        You really need an income considerably above average to be able to think about FIRE in Poland (whereas in US you could probably retire early on an average salary). In that regard, it's less applicable.
- zhdc1 5y ago
  We know one couple who makes FAANG level income. They have a very nice apartment, but otherwise are as reasonable with their spending (from what we’ve seen) as everyone else. The rest of our social circle is decidedly middle income. We also live in a very high cost of living location that isn’t California or NYC. Guess what guys, you can have a good life in all but a small handful of places while saving towards retirement and making median wages.
notyourday 5y ago
That is until they wake up in their mid forties/early fifties and realize the entire life passed them by. The problem of being relatively rich and living like a poor person is that it is a life of a poor person. Spending money provides access to experiences. Having gobs of money at fifties or sixties won't reset the clock and unlock what one missed in twenties, thirties and forties
- mbg721 5y ago
  Frugality here is distinct from cheapness; I don't think the FIRE advocates would say to live like a poor person in the Sam Vimes' Boots sense. Ideally it's more about avoiding the hedonic treadmill as much as possible, where you'd be spending money without getting any meaningful experiences.
  - notyourday 5y ago
    FIRE is exactly that. It is living like a poor person on a well off person income and banking the difference to retire early. For example, my very nice apartment in NYC costs me about $4500/mo. I get a 35-40 minutes commute to my office door to door. I have a co-worker who lives in PA. His one way commute is 2h-3h ( depending on a day ) one way but he pays only $1300 for his apartment and $1000/mo on the commute, making his cost $2300/mo. He says it is a great deal because he saving all that money and he is going to retire before me. We also have a custodian. The custodian is paid much, much less than either of us. The custodian happens to live next to my co-worker. In fact, it was the custodian who told my co-worker about that place. Because of how much an average American works, including my co-worker, life of my coworker pretty much matches the life of our custodian.
    - wing-_-nuts 5y ago
      >FIRE is exactly that. It is living like a poor person on a well off person income and banking the difference to retire early. No, it's living below your means, saving and investing, because you value your time more than you value stuff. Your anecdotes are exactly that. The average person saving for FIRE is no miser.

mbbutler 5y ago

I like the idea of FIRE but so many of its practitioners developed their passive income by becoming parasitic landlords. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
moate 5y ago
>>...parasitic landlords. This is redundant.
JohnPrine 5y ago
if you have a problem with landlords then you just have a problem with capitalism in general
- mbbutler 5y ago
  I do and I do.
  - burntoutfire 5y ago
    There are still a few non-capitalist countries in the world (N. Korea, Kuba, Venezuela), perhaps you'd like it better there.
trenning 5y ago
There's definitely a lot of Airbnb flob house owners that are outspoken in the fire type communities. But in the coastfire/leanfire groups there's more interest in steady savings and living frugal which is much more palatable to read.
gruez 5y ago
>becoming parasitic landlords How am I being a "parasitic landlord" by investing in the S&P500, which is mostly composed of companies generating value?